NDL Forum

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:50 pm**

+1 on Dave.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:55 pm**

BFiVL wrote:
shel311 wrote:Drunk AND salty.

It's gonna be a long night.

There is nothing better on these boards than Biffy getting his jimmies rustled.

Shel,you realize some of us don't give a shit with what you say on these boards and like healthy debates? You give youself too much credit but again that's not too shocking either.

You still lost that bet.

Dude calm down. Wtf

Geez.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:59 pm**

shel311 wrote:
BFiVL wrote:
shel311 wrote:Drunk AND salty.

It's gonna be a long night.

There is nothing better on these boards than Biffy getting his jimmies rustled.

Shel,you realize some of us don't give a shit with what you say on these boards and like healthy debates? You give youself too much credit but again that's not too shocking either.

You still lost that bet.

Dude calm down. Wtf

Geez.

Shelly is in defeat mode.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:01 pm**

DRiccio21 wrote:shel you love to argue semantics

he's saying its unconsitutional. whether its 'against the law' is dependant on your definition of the law. if you believe that the consitution is the law, than you can debate it. but by the laws written, its not illegal for them to look for other stuff after pulling you over for tags if they have 'probable cause'

its a gray area that cops generally take advantage of but rarely ever admit... this guy admitted it

at least thats how i understand it... but i'm not a constitution expert nor a lawyer

I said it was semantics just a few pages up.

But semantics IMO isn't a good excuse for Trendon to make the huge logic leap and suggest cops admitted to breaking the law, no?

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:00 pm**

shel311 wrote:
DRiccio21 wrote:shel you love to argue semantics

he's saying its unconsitutional. whether its 'against the law' is dependant on your definition of the law. if you believe that the consitution is the law, than you can debate it. but by the laws written, its not illegal for them to look for other stuff after pulling you over for tags if they have 'probable cause'

its a gray area that cops generally take advantage of but rarely ever admit... this guy admitted it

at least thats how i understand it... but i'm not a constitution expert nor a lawyer
I said it was semantics just a few pages up.

But semantics IMO isn't a good excuse for Trendon to make the huge logic leap and suggest cops admitted to breaking the law, no?

I'm not going to side with Shel on this one, because I don't know anything about the legal side of all this, but I am going to ask the same question. What law is broken if a cop declares license tabs as a way to find other laws being broken?

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:50 pm**

shel311 wrote: I said it was semantics just a few pages up.

But semantics IMO isn't a good excuse for Trendon to make the huge logic leap and suggest cops admitted to breaking the law, no?

i don't know the constitution or the law well enough to really comment.

but i think if he considers the constitution the law then it's certainly questionable to whether cops break the law by searching for other stuff because of a simple tag violation. and if the guy is saying that they do pull people over on tag violations and use that as a means to search for other stuff than i wouldn't say its that big of a leap. we all know technically its not against the law cause cops can always use the probable cause gray area at that point, they just never usually admit it until this guy saying it.

but again, i'm no expert

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:52 pm**

shel311 wrote:So, if a cop stops someone for speeding, is it against the law to see if he has any warrants out? 4TH AMENDMENT!!!!!

No. That is fine, it will be on your record without the officer having to do anything more than a cursory check of your identification. I also have no issue (well, I certainly don't like them, but no issue) with the new(ish) license plate scanners that pick up your plate without the officer having to do anything. The Supreme Court has already ruled that you do not have any expectation for privacy on the outside of your car (re: tags) and I agree.

However, the inside of your car is protected by any number of goddamn laws and amendments and the officer needs probable fucking cause or they can't search. So, they use things like expired registrations to search cars (often after they've cuffed the suspect and removed him from the vehicle's vicinity, which in most jurisdictions is illegal, too. It is fucked up because an expired registration does not mean that they can search my car.

And this guy just admitted it. Notice he didn't say shit about using the stickers to find people with lapsed/bogus/suspended registrations. No, he skipped that part. That is a gross violation of the Fourth Amendment. There is no "cop side" and "Trendon side" to this.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:54 pm**

cougnix wrote:
shel311 wrote:
DRiccio21 wrote:shel you love to argue semantics

he's saying its unconsitutional. whether its 'against the law' is dependant on your definition of the law. if you believe that the consitution is the law, than you can debate it. but by the laws written, its not illegal for them to look for other stuff after pulling you over for tags if they have 'probable cause'

its a gray area that cops generally take advantage of but rarely ever admit... this guy admitted it

at least thats how i understand it... but i'm not a constitution expert nor a lawyer
I said it was semantics just a few pages up.

But semantics IMO isn't a good excuse for Trendon to make the huge logic leap and suggest cops admitted to breaking the law, no?
I'm not going to side with Shel on this one, because I don't know anything about the legal side of all this, but I am going to ask the same question. What law is broken if a cop declares license tabs as a way to find other laws being broken?

You cannot detain someone for one thing just to search for another. LAW 101. If another thing HAPPENS to pop up (smell weed, suspicious activity in car, illegal items in plain sight, etc) then you can move on to other investigations. You cannot, however, use registration tags as a means to find weed (or whatever). The law does not fucking work like that for a very good reason.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:55 pm**

And, again, these two nimrods in the article admitted it. They didn't say shit about using registration stickers to pull people over for registration violations.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:57 pm**

I know you guys see "cop" and "Trendon" in the same sentence and automatically side with the police because you assume I am wrong. This is textbook and if a defense attorney ever paid attention to search engines back then - or clipped news articles - he should have (or would have) thrown that quote into that cop's face at every trial he ever was the arresting officer in.

I know I would. And judges (or juries) would eat that shit up because it creates reasonable doubt. I would not be surprised if those two were disciplined.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:59 pm**

preach brother trendon.

i've had 2 debates today, its amazing how far removed our generation is from caring out our freedom, liberties and the importance of free market capitalism and what its done for our country.

i had a guy tell me today, the problem with the NBA is the players make too much money and he wished the cap was 30mil with 10 being a max contract. he didn't understand when i tried to explain that would ruin the NBA and its unamerican due to the basic principles of capitalism and supply/demand.

i don't think the problem with the future of our country is education or infrastructure or any of the things people claim will ruin us, i think its the loss of our freedoms and our care for them. we fought for so many years to get these things and now we just don't really seem to care that they get taken away... and its not because they aren't patriotic or american, they just don't get the alternative.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:02 pm**

DRiccio21 wrote:preach brother trendon.

i've had 2 debates today, its amazing how far removed our generation is from caring out our freedom, liberties and the importance of free market capitalism and what its done for our country.

i had a guy tell me today, the problem with the NBA is the players make too much money and he wished the cap was 30mil with 10 being a max contract. he didn't understand when i tried to explain that would ruin the NBA and its unamerica. i don't think the problem with the future of our country is education or infrastructure or any of the things people claim will ruin us, i think its the loss of our freedoms and our care for them. we fought for so many years to get these things and now we just don't really seem to care that they get taken away... and its not because they aren't patriotic or american, they just don't get the alternative.

With rare exception, I don't go a day without being reminded that getting back into school and planning on law school isn't my destiny. I cannot wait to save the world because I have come to the conclusion that criminal defense attorneys are a severely underappreciated weapon that out society needs and I cannot wait until I can start fighting the good fight. I'd say that I should have done this when I wanted to fifteen years ago, but I doubt I would have had the understanding, appreciation, or passion for it like I do now.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:07 pm**

DRiccio21 wrote:
i had a guy tell me today, the problem with the NBA is the players make too much money and he wished the cap was 30mil with 10 being a max contract. he didn't understand when i tried to explain that would ruin the NBA and its unamerican due to the basic principles of capitalism and supply/demand.

I JUST HAD THAT CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT TODAY!!!!!!!

Guy is all pissy because two hockey players signed deals for $98 million. "THEY ARE JUST PLAYING A GAME! WHAT ABOUT DOCTORS AND COPS!" Here is how you talk to them.

First, ask them what their favorite team is. Quickly use your sports knowledge to recall a time when one of their star players was hurt. I know this man and he is a Pats fan like me. So, I say:

"Remember when Tom Brady blew his knee out? Remember your first thought? Yeah, it was horror. Horror because the SECOND BEST FUCKING PLAYER THE PATRIOTS COULD FIND WAS MATT CASSELL." Then remind him of the time that cop died or a doctor retired and ask him if crime immediately spiked or people were dying of the flu left and right. No? That's because they're fucking replaceable and, as such, don't command big bucks.

It makes sense to them like that. Tug at their emotions. When they realize that their team is completely fucked when the point guard is out and instead of having the 4th best player at that position, they "only" have the 36th best player at that position ... then they realize why they get paid like that. They'll still mumble some incoherent nonsense, but just smile at them.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:10 pm**

its just supply and demand... no different than the way anything else is priced.

you lower the salaries here and you find Lebron James playing for CSKW Moscow.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:11 pm**

Trendon, you know that every judge is gonna roll their eyes and swear under their breath every time you enter court

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:14 pm**

DRiccio21 wrote:its just supply and demand... no different than the way anything else is priced.

you lower the salaries here and you find Lebron James playing for CSKW Moscow.

People are idiots. A month or so ago, I made a post on Facebook asking if I am the only poor person who admires the wealthy. It was my cousin Joe and I versus about twenty people who spewed vitriol. People believe that every single person that is wealthy is an evil person. Yet, when I say "C.R.E.A.M." or allude to money being the key to everything, they tell me that money is the root of all evil.

I really should start recording my conversations at work. I meet hundreds of people a day; every day. I amuse myself on getting them to contradict themselves in mere minutes. People do not think before they speak.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:17 pm**

The whole thing with rights is they are open to interpretation.

!!!

At least two months have been removed from my life with the scar that just hit my heart.

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:24 pm**

Where in that article did it say that they pull people over for expired registration and just start searching cars?

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:34 pm**

beercop wrote:Where in that article did it say that they pull people over for expired registration and just start searching cars?

I'm really not following the logic leap either, like I said.

I'll just agree to disagree with Riccio as I don't think we can assume that a cop pulling over a car and looking for lapsed insurances and doing other things at his legal disposal(again, IF this is legal as I've stated I don't know the actual laws) will go a step further and break search and seizure laws.

Do some cops go too far? Of course. But just because of that, I don't think we can point and say that one certain cop admitted to breaking laws.

Posted: **Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:34 pm**

"At a recent legislative hearing, Public Safety Commissioner Arthur Spada said state troopers rely on the stickers as reasons for stopping suspicious cars, and he would oppose removing them."

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