Presidential Debate

[Crowes]

Whereas Obama just gave tax payer money to companies that took their jobs overseas. Or gave taxpayer money to green companies that just flat out failed.

Which company's would that be the one's that took the money and moved overseas? And hate to break it to ya but green is the future if the government doesnt get involved in some way there is no possible way our green company's will be able to compete with foreign company's , ie the Chinese, with major government backing.

[DRiccio21]

you have the choice -- corruption thru big gov't or corruption thru capitalism. you can choose. but to think that any democrat isn't as corrupt is ridiculously stupid and naive.

the most wild thing about politics to me is that somehow we've been hoodwinked into thinking that democrat = for the people and republican = for the corporations. its so ass backwards that i can't comprehend how anyone willing to think about it logically can think that way.

[shel311]

you have the choice -- corruption thru big gov't or corruption thru capitalism. you can choose. but to think that any democrat isn't as corrupt is ridiculously stupid and naive.

the most wild thing about politics to me is that somehow we've been hoodwinked into thinking that democrat = for the people and republican = for the corporations. its so ass backwards that i can't comprehend how anyone willing to think about it logically can think that way.

This thread is just such a headscratcher.

I will never understand the democrat-republican back and forth debates, and I love debates

[brwnbear]

Whereas Obama just gave tax payer money to companies that took their jobs overseas. Or gave taxpayer money to green companies that just flat out failed.

Which company's would that be the one's that took the money and moved overseas? And hate to break it to ya but green is the future if the government doesnt get involved in some way there is no possible way our green company's will be able to compete with foreign company's , ie the Chinese, with major government backing.

Fisker

[Crowes]

Whereas Obama just gave tax payer money to companies that took their jobs overseas. Or gave taxpayer money to green companies that just flat out failed.

Which company's would that be the one's that took the money and moved overseas? And hate to break it to ya but green is the future if the government doesnt get involved in some way there is no possible way our green company's will be able to compete with foreign company's , ie the Chinese, with major government backing.

Fisker

Not true take 10 minutes to research and you'd find that all the DOE loans have requirements that they have to be spent here. While Fisker has yet to build cars here the money they got did not go back to Finland it was used in the states. Fisker received roughly 500 million that is just a drop in the bucket. How about the DOE's loan to Nissan should that have happened? They have built a new battery plant here in TN and will build electric motors here also that will create close to 2,000 new jobs guess that was a waste of money also. Not every bet they make is gonna succeed.

[OracleHCR]

Whereas Obama just gave tax payer money to companies that took their jobs overseas. Or gave taxpayer money to green companies that just flat out failed.

Which company's would that be the one's that took the money and moved overseas? And hate to break it to ya but green is the future if the government doesnt get involved in some way there is no possible way our green company's will be able to compete with foreign company's , ie the Chinese, with major government backing.

Fisker

GE is another company that gets hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars. Less than half of their 300,000 employees are in the U.S.
As far as green energy goes, if you are fine with billions of tax payer dollars being given to multiple companies that have since gone out of business then more power to you. None of these companies were vetted and then just handed millions of dollars each. Solyndra was given 500 million. They have all filed for bankruptcy or gotten help from other companies to try and stay afloat. These are probably still going to file bankruptcy in the near future.

[OracleHCR]

Not every bet they make is gonna succeed.

None of the bets they've made have succeeded. These batteries you are touting, how green are they when there is no safe way to dispose of them? I sincerely hope there are 2000 jobs created though.

[DRiccio21]

Not every bet they make is gonna succeed.

they shouldn't be making bets.

capitalism works, if there is a demand for something someone will provide the supply. its worked for hundreds of years.

name 1 gov't run program that wouldn't be better off privatized.

[OracleHCR]

Not every bet they make is gonna succeed.

they shouldn't be making bets.

capitalism works, if there is a demand for something someone will provide the supply. its worked for hundreds of years.

name 1 gov't run program that wouldn't be better off privatized.

Well. Since I work for them and want to keep my job, I am obligated to say the Post Office.
Worst run entity on the planet. Absolutely no business sense by anyone in management.

[DRiccio21]

its not the worst on the planet, but its close.

[Crowes]

Not every bet they make is gonna succeed.

they shouldn't be making bets.

capitalism works, if there is a demand for something someone will provide the supply. its worked for hundreds of years.

name 1 gov't run program that wouldn't be better off privatized.

Is that serious question? Would you rather everywhere you go it be toll road taking your money every mile? Or how about if you needed the police or fire department would you rather they not come if you couldn't pay the fee for their service. Do you really think a private company would do anything to address poverty or any kind of social programs? What would be the incentive to a private company?

[Crowes]

Not every bet they make is gonna succeed.

they shouldn't be making bets.

capitalism works, if there is a demand for something someone will provide the supply. its worked for hundreds of years.

name 1 gov't run program that wouldn't be better off privatized.

Well. Since I work for them and want to keep my job, I am obligated to say the Post Office.
Worst run entity on the planet. Absolutely no business sense by anyone in management.

Isn't the whole problem with them that congress makes them fund retirement for employees not even working for them yet? The post office receives 0 funding from the government or so i've heard.

[OracleHCR]

Isn't the whole problem with them that congress makes them fund retirement for employees not even working for them yet? The post office receives 0 funding from the government or so i've heard.

That is part of it but not nearly the whole problem. The post office does receive zero funding from the govt by the way. And because of being made to fund the retirement program, the PO overpaid 5 billion dollars which Congress said too bad for you and took that money to fund some other govt program.
The real problem is with the management. Everyone of them at the top worked their way up from being a carrier or clerk and don't have education on how to run a business. They don't do studies on the changes they plan to make and just make them. For example: they want to close a bunch of mail sorting plants and started to lay off employees and closed them without doing a study on how it would impact the business. Because of these shutdowns, they will have to cut out overnight deliveries. So... while the business is struggling they plan to cut services. You never cut services, you try and become more competitive.
Another example is they moved a lot of the smaller offices into bigger ones to try and save money. Now they pay more in fuel because the carriers have to drive farther to get to their routes. They also didn't close the buildings that the smaller offices were in because the post office boxes are still there so they pay rent on those buildings still. The office that I used to work in was in a building that costs something like $10k a month. So as you can see they are saving loads of money. They make stupid decisions like this daily.

[DRiccio21]

USPS pensions are a gov't obligation.

[Crowes]

Not every bet they make is gonna succeed.

None of the bets they've made have succeeded. These batteries you are touting, how green are they when there is no safe way to dispose of them? I sincerely hope there are 2000 jobs created though.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/can-elect ... cycled.htm
Just scanned over it, think it says they can....

[beercop]

Not every bet they make is gonna succeed.

None of the bets they've made have succeeded. These batteries you are touting, how green are they when there is no safe way to dispose of them? I sincerely hope there are 2000 jobs created though.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/can-elect ... cycled.htm
Just scanned over it, think it says they can....

How do you make a battery? Petrolum for the plastic used in the battery. What is petroleum? Oil

So… how are these batteries so much better for the enviroment? Also, when green energy is more profitable it will be produced and take over oil, coal & nuclear power. Until then it is a pipe dream. The numbers just do not add up right now.

I am amazed everyday at how intelligent people are sheep.

[jsence2]

you have the choice -- corruption thru big gov't or corruption thru capitalism. you can choose. but to think that any democrat isn't as corrupt is ridiculously stupid and naive.

the most wild thing about politics to me is that somehow we've been hoodwinked into thinking that democrat = for the people and republican = for the corporations. its so ass backwards that i can't comprehend how anyone willing to think about it logically can think that way.

Voting for a politician is basically just voting for which group you want to get fucked more violently than yourself. It took me a while to realize there is not government anymore without corruption and hidden agendas.

The only people the politicians care about are themselves, and the people who got them there (and I sure as hell don't mean the voters).

[Crowes]

Not every bet they make is gonna succeed.

None of the bets they've made have succeeded. These batteries you are touting, how green are they when there is no safe way to dispose of them? I sincerely hope there are 2000 jobs created though.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/can-elect ... cycled.htm
Just scanned over it, think it says they can....

How do you make a battery? Petrolum for the plastic used in the battery. What is petroleum? Oil

So… how are these batteries so much better for the enviroment? Also, when green energy is more profitable it will be produced and take over oil, coal & nuclear power. Until then it is a pipe dream. The numbers just do not add up right now.

I am amazed everyday at how intelligent people are sheep.

Do you really think the amount of petroleum used to make the plastic is even remotely the same as the amount we use for gas? So comparing the two is a little absurd, Cmon now... Last time I checked most plastics can be recycled, gas not so much.

[beercop]

Not every bet they make is gonna succeed.

None of the bets they've made have succeeded. These batteries you are touting, how green are they when there is no safe way to dispose of them? I sincerely hope there are 2000 jobs created though.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/can-elect ... cycled.htm
Just scanned over it, think it says they can....

How do you make a battery? Petrolum for the plastic used in the battery. What is petroleum? Oil

So… how are these batteries so much better for the enviroment? Also, when green energy is more profitable it will be produced and take over oil, coal & nuclear power. Until then it is a pipe dream. The numbers just do not add up right now.

I am amazed everyday at how intelligent people are sheep.

Do you really think the amount of petroleum used to make the plastic is even remotely the same as the amount we use for gas? So comparing the two is a little absurd, Cmon now... Last time I checked most plastics can be recycled, gas not so much.

You missed the point.
A. It uses petroleum, and more than you think. We use a lot more oil everyday on other things beside gasoline. Not counting the enviromental hazards of batteries.
B. it is not economical right now. Building cars that get 50 mpgs is a reality and where the focus should be.
C. The Govt should stay out of it and the private business sink or swim. With 500 million you could give everyone in America a million and make the buy a car and pay off their house in forclosure. Auto industry save along with housing crisis.

[shel311]

This last post and all of its quotes basically encapsules every political debate ever.