***Official NBA Playoffs Thread***

[DRiccio21]

don't confuse my last post with any type of defense for LeBron last night, it wasn't intended to be... he played like a complete pussy.

[ReignOnU]

This is ultimately my biggest issue of Lebron. The more posts I've exchanged with you guys, the more I realize exactly why I hate the guy. He has the tools to be the greatest player to ever play... and this is what he gives us. I genuinely want him to be an absolute monster and destroy everything in site, like he's playing NBA Jam. But I'm getting Double Dribble.

[packsyD22]

This is more for Pippen's comments a few weeks ago but when did you ever hear a finals loss ever being because MJ played poorly. There is no comparison between the two. Not saying anyone in here is saying that just making a statement.

[autiger730]

[dakshdar]

This is ultimately my biggest issue of Lebron. The more posts I've exchanged with you guys, the more I realize exactly why I hate the guy. He has the tools to be the greatest player to ever play... and this is what he gives us. I genuinely want him to be an absolute monster and destroy everything in site, like he's playing NBA Jam. But I'm getting Double Dribble.

People would be happy if he'd just give them Bill Lambeer's Combat Basketball. Instead, Wade is jumping out of the arena to block Chandler and Dirk every other possession and LeBron is standing in the corner with his banky.

Seriously, on the Dirk layup late, why is the design of the play supposed to have Wade come over to double and go for the block instead of LeBron who's 4-5 inches taller and (seemingly) quite a bit stronger?

[Cnasty]

I wouldn't say he was the sole reason they lost but a big factor like i previously said.

He needs to recognize wade is tired, bosh is cold and now its my time to step up and take shit over as the best in the game and look to score..not dish or set up, score.

He didn't look to score last night at all. I'm not saying take 40 shots but be assertive, take some shots down the stretch, beat Jason freaking Terry to the paint.

Very annoying watching the most talented team in basketball get lazy and not have the knowledge to see when it's time to take over and do shit differently than they are to secure a double digit lead.

Spoelstra needs to get a backbone and say something about it in practice or even on the bench when he sees it. Wade was doing everything last night on both sides of the ball in trying to win but bron was so passive it made me sick. Series should be over

[nick]

This is more for Pippen's comments a few weeks ago but when did you ever hear a finals loss ever being because MJ played poorly. There is no comparison between the two. Not saying anyone in here is saying that just making a statement.

Jordan was too busy pushing off Jazz defenders and getting no calls to be a pussy duh

[Matt90210]

Shel can be quoted as saying the Lakers would have been working on a 3-peat last year if Kobe hadn't disappeared against the Celtics in 2008.

Kobe's average vs Celtics in first 4 games in 2008 finals: 26.8 PPG, 3.3 TO, 2.5 steals, 6.3 assists, 4.7 rebounds, 43.5% shooting.

LeBron's average vs Mavericks in first 4 games of 2011 finals: 17.3 PPG, 3.5 TO, 2.3 steals, 6.3 assists, 7 rebounds, 46% shooting.

Kobe had 1 block in 4 games; LeBron has 1 block in 4 games.

Kobe had 1 double-double in 4 games; LeBron has 0.

Kobe did his against the team with the best record in the NBA, with a worse supporting cast and against a team with a better defense.

Kobe's averages that entire post season: 30.1 PPG, 3.3 TO, 1.7 steals, .4 block, 5.6 assists, 5.7 rebounds, 48% shooting

LeBron's averages this entire post season: 25.1 PPG, 2.9 TO, 1.8 steals, 1.3 blocks, 5.6 assists, 8.5 rebounds, 47% shooting


In 2007-2008, Kobe's "right hand man" Pau Gasol's NBA Finals stats: 14.7 PPG, 2.2 TO, .5 Block, 3.3 assists, 10.2 rebounds, 53 % shooting

This postseason, LBJ's "right hand man" Dwayne Wade's NBA Finals stats: 29.8 PPG, 1.5 TO, 1.5 blocks, 4 assists, 8 rebounds, 58% shooting

Chris Bosh is averaging more points than Pau Gasol and any other Laker that series not named Kobe Bryant.

I'm just saying, Kobe would be getting shit on by you guys if he was playing like LeBron is. I do not see this series being won by the Mavs and I fully expect LeBron to go off in at least one of the next two games, especially since the Mavs have noone who should actually be able to guard him.

But if Kobe disappeared, so has LeBron.

[DRiccio21]

if Kobe played like LeBron played last night i'd be all over him... yes.

i have repeatedly said LeBron played poorly last night and even said i'd blame him for that loss.

other than last night, LeBron has been fine in the finals.

i'm not a blind supporter of anyone except my family... i can admit when guys i support suck.

[Matt90210]

if Kobe played like LeBron played last night i'd be all over him... yes.

i have repeatedly said LeBron played poorly last night and even said i'd blame him for that loss.

other than last night, LeBron has been fine in the finals.

i'm not a blind supporter of anyone except my family... i can admit when guys suck.

Fact is, Kobe was the laughing stock of that thread. Granted, he did not completely redeem himself in game 5's and 6 but his performance in the 07-08 playoffs were on par or better than LeBron's this season.

In the 08-09 playoffs when Gasol "gave" Kobe his first ring in the non-Shaq era, Kobe averaged 30.2 points during that post season, 2.6 TO, 1.7 steal, .9 block, 5.5 assists, 5.3 rebounds and shot 46%

In these playoffs, LeBron is averaging: 24.6 points, 2.9 TO, 1.8 steal, 1.2 block, 5.6 assists, 8.5 rebounds and shooting 46%

Last year, when Gasol "gave" another ring to Kobe, his post season averages were this: 29.2 points, 3.4 TO, 1.3 steal, .7 block, 5.5 assists, 6 rebounds and shot 46%


So if Gasol gave the rings to Kobe, Wade and Bosh are on their knee proposing to the younger, bigger James.

[DRiccio21]

if Kobe played like LeBron played last night i'd be all over him... yes.

i have repeatedly said LeBron played poorly last night and even said i'd blame him for that loss.

other than last night, LeBron has been fine in the finals.

i'm not a blind supporter of anyone except my family... i can admit when guys suck.

Fact is, Kobe was the laughing stock of that thread. Granted, he did not completely redeem himself in game 5's and 6 but his performance in the 07-08 playoffs were on par or better than LeBron's this season.

In the 08-09 playoffs when Gasol "gave" Kobe his first ring in the non-Shaq era, Kobe averaged 30.2 points during that post season, 2.6 TO, 1.7 steal, .9 block, 5.5 assists, 5.3 rebounds and shot 46%

In these playoffs, LeBron is averaging: 24.6 points, 2.9 TO, 1.8 steal, 1.2 block, 5.6 assists, 8.5 rebounds and shooting 46%

Last year, when Gasol "gave" another ring to Kobe, his post season averages were this: 29.2 points, 3.4 TO, 1.3 steal, .7 block, 5.5 assists, 6 rebounds and shot 46%


So if Gasol gave the rings to Kobe, Wade and Bosh are on their knee proposing to James.

now you're making stuff up.

last year, I didn't say anything about Kobe in the playoffs, i said he was terrible during the finals. which he was. He shot like 40% on a ton of shots and had like 4 turnovers per game. he was INCREDIBLE vs Phoenix so i know for a fact i didn't bash him for the whole playoffs.

edit: i do remember him sucking vs OKC and bashing him then... but most of my comments on Kobe last year were about him playing so bad in the finals you could make a case that he hurt his team more than helped yet he won a finals MVP.

[shel311]

Shel can be quoted as saying the Lakers would have been working on a 3-peat last year if Kobe hadn't disappeared against the Celtics in 2008.

Kobe's average vs Celtics in first 4 games in 2008 finals: 26.8 PPG, 3.3 TO, 2.5 steals, 6.3 assists, 4.7 rebounds, 43.5% shooting.

LeBron's average vs Mavericks in first 4 games of 2011 finals: 17.3 PPG, 3.5 TO, 2.3 steals, 6.3 assists, 7 rebounds, 46% shooting.

Kobe had 1 block in 4 games; LeBron has 1 block in 4 games.

Kobe had 1 double-double in 4 games; LeBron has 0.

Kobe did his against the team with the best record in the NBA, with a worse supporting cast and against a team with a better defense.

Kobe's averages that entire post season: 30.1 PPG, 3.3 TO, 1.7 steals, .4 block, 5.6 assists, 5.7 rebounds, 48% shooting

LeBron's averages this entire post season: 25.1 PPG, 2.9 TO, 1.8 steals, 1.3 blocks, 5.6 assists, 8.5 rebounds, 47% shooting


In 2007-2008, Kobe's "right hand man" Pau Gasol's NBA Finals stats: 14.7 PPG, 2.2 TO, .5 Block, 3.3 assists, 10.2 rebounds, 53 % shooting

This postseason, LBJ's "right hand man" Dwayne Wade's NBA Finals stats: 29.8 PPG, 1.5 TO, 1.5 blocks, 4 assists, 8 rebounds, 58% shooting

Chris Bosh is averaging more points than Pau Gasol and any other Laker that series not named Kobe Bryant.

I'm just saying, Kobe would be getting shit on by you guys if he was playing like LeBron is. I do not see this series being won by the Mavs and I fully expect LeBron to go off in at least one of the next two games, especially since the Mavs have noone who should actually be able to guard him.

But if Kobe disappeared, so has LeBron.

I NEVER defended Lebron for last night, there is no defense. He was horrible. If he plays the next 2 or 3 games of this series like last night, I'll agree that he can take 90% of the blame. That being said, he wasn't bad or shrinking or whatever it was you and others were saying about him the 1st 3 games, IMO.

As for your 1st line in that post, Kobe shot 33% in the final 3 games of that series. You're silly if you think I'll defend Lebron if he does the same.


About the only point I'll concede, I'd probably be tougher and joke more about Kobe having these performances. But not because of Kobe himself, I'd do so because of the killer/best closer/assassin names the media and so many others crown him with, despite him being pretty similar to every other superstar in those spots, not any different really.

[Matt90210]

if Kobe played like LeBron played last night i'd be all over him... yes.

i have repeatedly said LeBron played poorly last night and even said i'd blame him for that loss.

other than last night, LeBron has been fine in the finals.

i'm not a blind supporter of anyone except my family... i can admit when guys suck.

Fact is, Kobe was the laughing stock of that thread. Granted, he did not completely redeem himself in game 5's and 6 but his performance in the 07-08 playoffs were on par or better than LeBron's this season.

In the 08-09 playoffs when Gasol "gave" Kobe his first ring in the non-Shaq era, Kobe averaged 30.2 points during that post season, 2.6 TO, 1.7 steal, .9 block, 5.5 assists, 5.3 rebounds and shot 46%

In these playoffs, LeBron is averaging: 24.6 points, 2.9 TO, 1.8 steal, 1.2 block, 5.6 assists, 8.5 rebounds and shooting 46%

Last year, when Gasol "gave" another ring to Kobe, his post season averages were this: 29.2 points, 3.4 TO, 1.3 steal, .7 block, 5.5 assists, 6 rebounds and shot 46%


So if Gasol gave the rings to Kobe, Wade and Bosh are on their knee proposing to James.

now you're making stuff up.

last year, I didn't say anything about Kobe in the playoffs, i said he was terrible during the finals. which he was. He shot like 40% on a ton of shots and had like 4 turnovers per game. he was INCREDIBLE vs Phoenix so i know for a fact i didn't bash him for the whole playoffs.

You're right but I didn't say you made fun of him in the playoffs. Most of it was in the finals but he hadn't "disappeared" as Shel said.

But Dave, have you not taken away Kobe's previous two rings because he had Gasol? I know many LBJ supporters have.

Don't you take away Kobe's 3 peat because of Shaq when, with the exception of the 09-00 finals, Kobe's postseason numbers in the Shaq era are absolutely fine?

Maybe you're not my target so go on loving LeBron all you want, but Kobe gets a bad rap around here and it's not entirely true.

[shel311]

Fact is, Kobe was the laughing stock of that thread.

Again, it's more just joking about you and others who build him up as the best closer of all time, the guy you want to have the ball in the clutch and taking the last shot.


But Kobe was horrible in those Finals. And he also sucked against OKC. In between, he did well against Utah and Phoenix.

[shel311]

Most of it was in the finals but he hadn't "disappeared" as Shel said.

In 2008? Of course he disappeared in the final 3 games. Absolutely.

If you don't think he did, I'll circle around and use your argument and say you can't say Lebron did this season.

[DRiccio21]

You're right but I didn't say you made fun of him in the playoffs. Most of it was in the finals but he hadn't "disappeared" as Shel said.

But Dave, have you not taken away Kobe's previous two rings because he had Gasol? I know many LBJ supporters have.

Don't you take away Kobe's 3 peat because of Shaq when, with the exception of the 09-00 finals, Kobe's postseason numbers in the Shaq era are absolutely fine?

Maybe you're not my target so go on loving LeBron all you want, but Kobe gets a bad rap around here and it's not entirely true.

no.

my beef has and always will be that the Kobe love is extremely exagerrated... he's not nearly the player that people make him out to be. He's amazing, he's great, he's been a top 10 player for a hell of a long time... but he's not a top 10 all time or 'mj' like people made him out to be. He's never had a single year where he was the best player in the NBA... not 1.

my other point was always that LeBron is a stud and a legend and an all time great whether he won a ring or not because rings are team accomplishments and there is nothing that makes LeBron a better player if he finishes this series with a ring on his finger than 2 weeks ago when he had none.

As for 'Shaq' carried Kobe or 'Gasol' carried Kobe. Again, not what i ever said. I have said time and time again that a guy can't win on his own. Kobe was no different than LeBron in the sense he couldn't win without help... until Gasol gave that legit second option, he couldn't win a ring. Yet he got the 'champ' mantra while LeBron got the 'choker' mantra.

those are my 5 years of sports debates lined up in 3 paragraphs.

[nick]

anyone else find it crazy that Lebron had a poor game and still almost had a triple double? 8/9/7

heres another fun fact: Lebron led the team yesterday in Assists and Rebounds. hmm

[DRiccio21]

as i read your quote again matt.

there isn't a person on Earth who thinks that the last 2 rings were Pau's rings alone. that he 'carried' the Lakers. thats ridiculous.
you can think Kobe is a great player but not think he's the best player in the NBA. thats pretty much where my opinion is.

also, the reason i said i never bashed him in the playoffs is because you posted his playoff stats... i bashed him in the finals, cause he sucked 'black mamba' in the finals last year.

[autiger730]

Kobe gets a bad rap around here and it's not entirely true.

[brwnbear]

Trying to follow the logic in this thread makes me dizzy..

Just want to make sure I have an accurate recap

Shell

- "I love the Heat"
- "I hate the Heat"
- "The Heat are the greatest collection of talent ever and collectively could save mankind"
- "The Heat suck!"
- Probably has high blood pressure after Heat games

Dave:

- hates the media
- LeBron is awesome and has always been awesome(covers ears and talks loudly over any dissending argument)
- Not really a Heat fan
- Stats are awesome
- Players that win championships are not better than players that dont

Cnasty

- Probably wears the same shirt for gameday because its lucky
- Probably forces his wife to sit in the exact same spot if the Heat go on a run
- Probably blames his wife for moving, even when she didnt, and causing the Heat to give up big leads
- Amazingly, the most open to criticism for LeBron, probably due to his Wade love

Packsy

- Loves MJ, mad at Pippen

Matt

- Kobe is better the LeBron (covers ears and talks loudly over any dissending argument)
- Feelings are still hurt that Kobe got trashed last year
- Taking out his vengance while he can

Nick

- Blind love for LeBron (not sure why)
- Praises LeBron during his worse game (unless it was actually a good game, I cant really tell anymore)