NDL Forum

Nick is on his own tonight.

nick wrote:its Lebron's fault? I'm confused, I overheard them saying Lebron was being double teamed, so he goes and gets a triple double, but no points in the 4th...k, but he had 2 free throw attempts too, while Dirk got what 1 FG in the 4th and every other point via fouls? Dirk could sneeze and get a foul in that 4th.

Like I said, LBJ is my fav player (his jersey is in my closet), but I mean what did he do wrong? Not score in thr 4th? he had 4 assists which mean he helped with min 8 other points, potentially 12, but thats not good enough lol.

Whatever, 2 games in Miami isn't gonna be easy for Dallas, especially with the fans against them finally... iunno

I dont know guys, I kinda agree with nick on this one. I think its clearly the NBA and the Mavs fault. If you slow down the tape you will notice a few times where LeBron had the ball and called his own foul and the Mavs and the refs refused to do anything about it. I mean what kind of league doesnt let you call your own fouls? You learn that shit in the playground in kindergarden and all of a sudden you can't do it anymore?

Sure LeBron didnt score didnt score when his team was trailing in the fourth quarter, but the truth is, he didnt need to. He was busy doing other shit. During the timeouts he was handing water to Bosh and rubbing icy hot on Wade's leg. He was wiping down floors when they got wet. He even broke a $50 bill when the beer man didnt have enough change for a fan. Its not his job to outscore the other team. If you want to find someone to blame, blame the Mavs for scoring too much.

Plus, as Nick already pointed out, LeBron was playing against 20,000 Mav fans. Do you know how hard it is to try and score against 20,000 fans. Its amazing they even fit on the court. Just wait until Dirk gets 16,347 teamed when he gets to Miami.

brwnbear wrote:

nick wrote:its Lebron's fault? I'm confused, I overheard them saying Lebron was being double teamed, so he goes and gets a triple double, but no points in the 4th...k, but he had 2 free throw attempts too, while Dirk got what 1 FG in the 4th and every other point via fouls? Dirk could sneeze and get a foul in that 4th.

Like I said, LBJ is my fav player (his jersey is in my closet), but I mean what did he do wrong? Not score in thr 4th? he had 4 assists which mean he helped with min 8 other points, potentially 12, but thats not good enough lol.

Whatever, 2 games in Miami isn't gonna be easy for Dallas, especially with the fans against them finally... iunno

I dont know guys, I kinda agree with nick on this one. I think its clearly the NBA and the Mavs fault. If you slow down the tape you will notice a few times where LeBron had the ball and called his own foul and the Mavs and the refs refused to do anything about it. I mean what kind of league doesnt let you call your own fouls? You learn that shit in the playground in kindergarden and all of a sudden you can't do it anymore?

Sure LeBron didnt score didnt score when his team was trailing in the fourth quarter, but the truth is, he didnt need to. He was busy doing other shit. During the timeouts he was handing water to Bosh and rubbing icy hot on Wade's leg. He was wiping down floors when they got wet. He even broke a $50 bill when the beer man didnt have enough change for a fan. Its not his job to outscore the other team. If you want to find someone to blame, blame the Mavs for scoring too much.

Plus, as Nick already pointed out, LeBron was playing against 20,000 Mav fans. Do you know how hard it is to try and score against 20,000 fans. Its amazing they even fit on the court. Just wait until Dirk gets 16,347 teamed when he gets to Miami.

you need a timeout for this sloppy response.

ps -

in fact here, just for you browny

Matt90210 wrote:At least now we can stop the LBJ being better than MJ talk.

I did a year ago last June

my buddy is such a mavs fan he just agreed to buy me a PS3 game if the Mavs win it all.. ahh win win situations, gotta love em

nick wrote:

More fodder for the "LeBron's gay" conspiracy?

cdub21 wrote:
cause yuo had like month rants about how the numbers say lebron deserved it over rose...

i've actually never once said LeBron deserved the MVP.

i was pretty consistent saying Howard deserved it. but its just easier to lazily throw me in the blind love pool rather than read what i write.

DRiccio21 wrote:

cdub21 wrote:
cause yuo had like month rants about how the numbers say lebron deserved it over rose...

i've actually never once said LeBron deserved the MVP.

i was pretty consistent saying Howard deserved it. but its just easier to lazily throw me in the blind love pool rather than read what i write.

I love arguing with Dave... but he's dead on. He was behind Howard the whole time.

with that said, i still would have had LeBron over Rose...

and with THAT said, i still have no idea what CDub was talking about


LeBron wasn't as aggressive as he could have been, obviously, last night in the 4th. but i didn't think he played as bad as he did the previous game or even close. He had, i believe, 4 assists and had a 50/50 call on a charge go against him on what would have been an and1. He was involved more (not a ton, but more) and was making the proper pass out of double teams... but at some point he just has to say fuck it and put his head down and barrel thru and get a charge. Again, he wasn't great by any means in the 4th, but he wasn't horrible like he was in game 4.

And just to quickly debunk the "facilitator" crap...

Regular Season
MPG - 38.8
FG% - .510
3pt% - .330
FT% - .759
REB - 7.5
AST - 7.0
STL - 1.6
BLK - 0.6
TO - 3.6
PPG - 26.7

Finals
MPG - 44.2 UP 5.4
FG% - .453 DOWN .057
3pt% - .304 DOWN .026
FT% - .688 DOWN .071
REB - 7.8 UP .3
AST - 7.0 ---
STL - 1.8 UP .2
BLK - 0.4 DOWN .2
TO - 3.6 ---
PPG - 17.2 DOWN 9.5

Reb, Ast, Stl, Blk, TO are all coming in VERY close to his season average. (Even with a 14% increase in MPG) If I actually pulled per, these would all be slightly down.

All 3 % catagories are down... and scoring is drastically down. He's facilitating? Nah, he's just not scoring.

i don't think the argument is being made that he's being a 'better facilitator' but just that he's acting as a facilitator. He's getting double teamed when he touches so instead of forcing shots, he's passing. Now he's also being overly passive as well which is making him a worse scorer.

To me, and this is purely an opinion, it seems like Miami decided after game 2 that they wanted the ball in DWade's hands in the 4th. LeBron is an average player off the ball so it just makes him look like he's disinterested when in fact he's just not very good at it.

either way, he's not playing great.

but last nights analysis of the game begins and ends with Dallas being 13-19 from 3. Not many games are being lost when you shoot that well.

Woke up sick again to that loss, so pathetic how talented this team is and they find ways to lose instead of finding ways to win.

I will give credit to Dallas for not missing and making every single ridiculous shot they hoisted up but Bron wasn't aggressive again. Yes not as bad as previous game but still, his 4th quarter disappearing acts are hilarious.

And Wade has to be fuming inside at what's going on. He didn't do much in the 4th either but he came back from almost missing the entire 3rd and was driving to the hoop instantly and forcing the action with an injury. Bron wont even do it fully healthy.

He looks scared, lost, or just uninterested and it's very odd.

Just mind bottling

And to add to that, there is 1 other standout stat... FTA. He hasn't taken more than 4 foul shots in any game. Normally he's good for 8-9 per game. Even shooting a normal average, that would get him over 20ppg. Definitely lacking aggressiveness in his game.

DRiccio21 wrote:i don't think the argument is being made that he's being a 'better facilitator' but just that he's acting as a facilitator. He's getting double teamed when he touches so instead of forcing shots, he's passing. Now he's also being overly passive as well which is making him a worse scorer.

To me, and this is purely an opinion, it seems like Miami decided after game 2 that they wanted the ball in DWade's hands in the 4th. LeBron is an average player off the ball so it just makes him look like he's disinterested when in fact he's just not very good at it.

either way, he's not playing great.

but last nights analysis of the game begins and ends with Dallas being 13-19 from 3. Not many games are being lost when you shoot that well.

I'm with you on this. But this opinion/bolded line jumps out to me. I watched this for years in Cleveland and I brought it up frequently when he left. It doesn't make him look disinterested, he IS disinterested. It's the Lebron way.

thats your opinion.

i don't think suddenly in 'the biggest game of his life' he doesn't care or 'isn't interested'. thats silly.

i think a more logical guess would be that since he was 9 years old he's played with the ball in his hands on every possession down the floor. Now, in 'the biggest game of his life' he finds himself off the ball and really isn't comfortable and in a position to take advantage. He's not the great player off the ball that he is with the ball. He hasn't been great like that all season off the ball against good competition .

to say he's scared and not interested and choking is just nonsense.

was wade scared or choking when he missed the biggest ft of the series last game or another last night or was he scared he dropped the ball on the game winning attempt or not interested when he was hurt in the 3rd q. i mean our bias just leads us to self fulfilling opinions on these guys. imagine if LeBron had a hip bruise and came out of the game then went back in then took the first 7 minutes of the 3rd q off... could you imagine the backlash???

again, not defending LeBron's overall body of work in the finals, he's been below what is expected of him for sure... but i'm not a believer in the psycho analysis.

You also forget though Dave he brought all this added attention to himself with most of the things he has done. Sure it's overblown as well from the media but when you do certain things and say things, you are gonna be under the microscope.

Everyone was sucking him off all season with another amazing season and when Miami wasnt losing but guess what, the bad comes with that too and it always will when you are the best player in the league.

He is below average off the ball but plenty of times last night he had the ball in his hands coming up the court and he still wasn't aggressive so that's not a good excuse as they tried multiple sets for him with the ball and he didn't want it.

I am not even saying he is the reason they lost or near it as Dallas wasn't missing last night. I watched a replay of all those crazy 3s and most were shot with like 2 seconds left on the shot clock, that's a killer for a d. Miami should have been blown out but actually played pretty well considering.

All I'm saying is something is up with lebron and you can start your bashing but he doesn't have it in him to say fuck this, my team needs me, I'm taking over. I'm going to the lane with the most athletic skills in the league and getting to the line or getting 3 straight charge calls. No one would bash him for going for it. Instead he passes, shoots horribly timed jumpers, or just fades.

If you wanna call it "heart", "lacking the take over instinct" whatever you wanna call it and turn your eye to it, but he doesn't have it.

he had the heart and stuff last week tho, thats what i don't get

he's never been the guy to take the ball at 3 guys when another guy is open, ever.

at what point is it unrealistic expectations of a player... he doesn't do those things and he's probably never going to do those things when he's double teamed or see's another guy open. i hear what you're saying... there were times i was screaming at the tv 'i don't care if you're getting double teamed, i'd rather have you shooting than Miller' but it's just not him.

i'm not saying he shouldn't be criticized for his play, of course he should. no question about it. he should be crushed for it. but not because he isn't 'mentally tough' or 'doesn't have the heart'. you can't be clutch one week and not clutch the next week... its not possible. you can't be a killer one week then not a killer the next.

Dallas is taking the ball out of his hands and playing into the fact they know he will defer if doubled. at some points thats a positive in his game, right now when they need him to be aggressive its a flaw.

Exactly, he has never had that and that is what bugs me the most about him and don't know if he will ever realize he needs it.

I'm not even speaking clutch or killer as you put it, but awareness of when your team is tanking and wade ain't doing shit and the ball is in your hands to just take over.

He needs to develop the awareness of when his team needs him to get to the line. With the league they play in and how the officiating is, if he is aggressive he will get the call and get to the line 8 or 9 times outa 10. He won't get anything with fade away jumpers and contested 3s as the shot clock goes down.

I think we are pretty much agreeing but I just need to vent. It's very frustrating watching a guy of his talent not have that awareness but i guess every super hero has a weakness.