WIN GOALS

[Daw1git]

Also another few questions

How are Conference schedules done?I thought it was like last season would have went by the real ncaa schedule and then the next season(This season) how and away would flip...but i guess i am wrong cause my schedule don't match up

How is home and away figured out for Conference championships?

How is home and away figured out for the Cop championship?

[brocam]

I think it is ABSURD to consider anyone UNDER a win goal of 6 to MAKE A BOWL as a CONF GOAL.

ok...win 1 conf game is good...but heres the thing...you are expecting (and it is expecting since it counts OFF your season if you do not make the goal) to have a 3 win goal...1 conf win goal...Iowa team to make a bowl game?

100% agree Feisty. The conference goals make no sense for some teams. Teams like Iowa get screwed and have to play way above their letter grade to get full credit while the top tier teams just have to win the games they are supposed to get all of their points.

i.e. PAC-10
--------------------------------------
USC A B+ A+
Arizona State B+ B+ B+
Arizona B B+ B
California B B- B
Oregon B B B
UCLA B B B
Oregon State B- C+ B-
Washington B- B B-
WSU B- B- B-
Stanford C+ B- B-
--------------------------------------
USC(A)-Conf Goals
15pts Win Conference
15pts Finish Top 2 in Conference

Well, if you win the conference you will be top 2. 30 points for accomplishing one goal? That doesn't make sense. Then if they somehow they don't win the conference (which they should) you still get points for finishing second. HUH???
Why not make the goal to go undefeated in conference since they are the top rated team? They are not asked to do anything above winning the games, on paper, they should win. Not to mention if they fail to do that, they can still get 15 points for finishing second.

Meanwhile:
Oregon State (B-)Conf Goals
Finish .500 OR Above - 15 Points
Bowl Game - 15 Points

Oregon State, based on letter grades, has a 2 win goal for conference. To go .500 in conference (9game schedule) they need to win 5 games (3 games above their win goal). Talk about high standards.

I know you guys put in a lot of work, but there are some glaring irregularities that I believe slipped through the cracks. However, I greatly appreciate the time put into the league system. Mistakes or not, this league is still the best out there.

[Nole4real]

kdog - sorry if i came off sounding like a prick..didnt mean to...win goals are mathematical summations...no "right" or "wrong" or "low" or "high" to them. they are what they are....again, apologies if i came off mean

daw - I may have been wrong about the rounding up vs down....I think we USED to round down but when we instituted the "minus one" on win goals we did begin rounding up otherwise guys could work the system and have a 7 or so win goal from a true 8.5 (so yea, now that i think about it..we do round up...my apologies.

also....the no win goal higher than 10 will really only apply to teams with an 11 for a win goal (after the minus 1)

if you calculate your raw win goal before the minus 1 to be 12...your win goal will 11...then with the no higher than 10..it will be 10

if your raw is 11, then after the minus its already 10

if raw is 10, then your win goal will be 9 and so on

feisty - your argument has merit....conf goals are not black and white like win goals.

with that I will share with you how they are done

Each conf is divided into "tiers"

each tier has expectations

if you are in the top tier then your goals will prolly include being the top 2 and winning conf

next level is finish above .500, next is at .500 or a top 4 or 6 depending on conf size and etc

if you look at syracuse and uconn, they are both C+'s and everyone else is in their division is higher than them...and they both have bowl games as an objective.

The point with teams like Iowa is look at the big picture.....you cant have "ringers"

yes, Iowa is the lowest rated team in the big 10, but by how much? Minny and indy are B-'s?

THEN there are 5, FIVE, F-I-V-E teams at a "b"...thats SEVEN teams withing a 2 tier swing.

Fault the conf as a whole for that goal..if more of those teams were "b+"'s then they may not have that bowl game as a goal.

no offense again to you and peay as when u look just at Iowa's goals it may not make sense but when you look at the big picture OBJECTIVELY, then it fits together in what we see as the fairest way to all 119 coaches and teams.

I wont get into the habit of doing this but here is the sheet we used to set goals.

the reason we wont llist this every year is simply because without fail, there will be 4-5 people who will see their team or the team they are looking at, and deem them "unfair" and begin an unnecessary discussion about the goals.

SImply put, they have been viewed/edited and worked by a committee for countless hours over a period of DAYS as we try to be fair to each team.

They are what they are. (again not meaning to be a dick but there's a certain level of autonomy in decision making that has to be used to keep the league flowing and to get stuff done)

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... 3MSL7VieUg

(click on the the conf names at the bottom to view each conf)

*last note - Im not sure if this was a the final or a working version since I lost my work laptop...but this will still give u and idea of the process*

[Nole4real]

Also another few questions

How are Conference schedules done?I thought it was like last season would have went by the real ncaa schedule and then the next season(This season) how and away would flip...but i guess i am wrong cause my schedule don't match up

How is home and away figured out for Conference championships?

How is home and away figured out for the Cop championship?

thats how i did it, mike would have to answer for these seasons

team with best record is home, if it is a tie it goes to some default which i cant remember

cup home/away is done by luck of the draw based on the bracket....its published at the start of every season and you can see whos home/away before every game

[Nole4real]

USC(A)-Conf Goals
15pts Win Conference
15pts Finish Top 2 in Conference


Why not make the goal to go undefeated in conference since they are the top rated team? They are not asked to do anything above winning the games, on paper, they should win. Not to mention if they fail to do that, they can still get 15 points for finishing second.

Meanwhile:
Oregon State (B-)Conf Goals
Finish .500 OR Above - 15 Points
Bowl Game - 15 PointsWell, if you win the conference you will be top 2. 30 points for accomplishing one goal? That doesn't make sense. Then if they somehow they don't win the conference (which they should) you still get points for finishing second. HUH???

Oregon State, based on letter grades, has a 2 win goal for conference. To go .500 in conference (9game schedule) they need to win 5 games (3 games above their win goal). Talk about high standards.

I know you guys put in a lot of work, but there are some glaring irregularities that I believe slipped through the cracks. However, I greatly appreciate the time put into the league system. Mistakes or not, this league is still the best out there.

again, you have to loo big picture.

"Well, if you win the conference you will be top 2. 30 points for accomplishing one goal? That doesn't make sense. Then if they somehow they don't win the conference (which they should) you still get points for finishing second. HUH???"

by this logic if someone wins the NC they shouldnt get points for winning their conf. why should they get conf points for accomplishing the one goal of winning the NC. Are they getting points for both???

obviously the answer is no.

from your above statement you are saying if USC goes 10-2, finishes 2nd in the conf...they should NOT get any conf points.

Again, BIG PICTURE.

keep in mind a coach needs 95 points to dynasty USC.

with perfect coaches reports and perfect particpation that 75 points of season success

you're saying if they finish 2nd in the conf....even at 11-1, with their 1 loss being to the conf champ....which would give them only 70 points for season.......they should be FIRED......well, they would becuase they wouldnt meet their goals in that case.

I understand you guys lack of understanding of the system and will try to help but all i ask is that you keep in mind EVERYTHING, not just a team here and a team there.

bottom line on the above is Oregon State is a B- team in conf where there are only two....TWO, T-W-O, teams at B+ or above

the rest are B, B- and less.

Is it REALLY that unfair to say finish AT .500 or above.

I think you guys are mixing and matching with the win goals and conf goals when they are seperate goals and seperate for a reason. once cant and shouldnt be used to as a basis to derive the other.

[Daw1git]

thanks

yeah with the cup championship i didn't know who should be home since he normally say the top team is home but in the championship neither team is the top team.

just some stuff i have come across last few seasons felt like every big game I was in I have been on the road.

but again thanks nole maybe mike can answer some of the questions you couldn't

[pounddarock]

Shit, I'm just happy to be here...

wingoalsconferencegoalsdifferentteirspaddywackabone....

NDL = FUCK YEAH!

[jeffdaddy]

Shit, I'm just happy to be here...

wingoalsconferencegoalsdifferentteirspaddywackabone....

NDL = FUCK YEAH!

You like that word FUCK YEAH

[brocam]

Nole, I appreciate the response, but I didn't say USC coach should be fired. More, that the other team's conference goals are not tied together. Winning the conf=finishing second @ USC where conf. A .500 conf record /= bowl game @ Org St. I don't want to get into a 'he said, he said'.

Big picture-----top tier teams have to do nothing more than win the games they are supposed to, sometimes losing those games they should win and still pick up points. Bottom tier teams have to play above and sometimes way above to pick up their points. Again, pointing out the system is weighted towards the top teams. Not like the equaling system there is with win goals.
Overall I am saying the 'tiers' teams are placed on based on letter grade don't always match the tier of the conference.

I see it as a problem and maybe I am alone. I bring it up as a 'fresh set of eyes' so that maybe down the road you and the guys behind the curtain may modify the way you distribute the goals. Perhaps, each conf commish looks at his conf big picture before the new game drops.
Just a humble suggestion. Nothing against all the work you guys put in and the system itself.

In the end, I will be here no matter what.

[Nole4real]

hey brocam,

i can appreciate your point and thanks. i see what you mean.

fyi, the tiers are ALREADY done on a per conf basis now...each conf is looked at within its own world ie "conf goals"..if you can view that spreadsheet I posted, you can see how each one is different and how some conf have different tiers than others based on how much their grades are spread out and how many teams they have.

one thing i forgot to mention is that keep in mind tat while a team liek usc needs 95 points to "dynasty"...a team like oregon state needs a 82.5

so they dont need as many points to be "successful"

anyway, appreciate your points

Long live "Brockem"

[DRWebs]

The focus in this league is certainly not win goals. They give you pretty much 75-80 points just for not being a dickstein and doing what you're supposed to. That lets you keep a pretty decent team, and most people attain some form of season success (which is more than conference goals) so they can move up that much higher to better teams. There's been plenty of guys who haven't had great success but were able to move up or retain their current team by doing the little things. It's not so bad...

[trendon]

I could talk to Nole and them about the goals setup. It has been a while, but I don't know if you guys remember the setup I had for the league I ran for the 05 version. I remember having to open an AIM chat room for the conference commissioners to explain the spreadsheet I designed to handle the points earned.

I THINK when I joined the NDL in Season 4, someone quizzed me on it and they thought I was insane.

What I am trying to say is that I am sure the boys in charge could come up with more ideal bonus goals, but it would melt everyone's mind.

Look at it this way, it is a bonus. I am a perennial .500 player who never won the conference and I've missed my goal once in nine seasons.

[trendon]

Actually, it might work now that we have an intelligent leader. The past two left much to be desired.

I hate them.

[VeniVediV1ci]

Actually, it might work now that we have an intelligent leader. The past two left much to be desired.

I hate them.

good job though noley poley

[SIRLOIN]

DAMM I AM WAITING FOR SOME "BEEFY TYPE BANS" PEOPLE ASKING QUESTIONS????? YOU FUCKERS BETTER BE CAREFUL!!!
YOU'LL GET BANNED FOR ASKING!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOL! ASK DOLOMITE!!!

[Nole4real]

Actually, it might work now that we have an intelligent leader. The past two left much to be desired.

I hate them.

Ass

[LGF]

I agree how you see those conf goals...

but is it so hard to say finish .500 in that league? as a conf goal.

I mean...I still find it hard to believe that the worst team in a conference they are EXPECTED to win 1...can somehow reel off 3 wins in conference...

Im just dumbfounded that if I have to win 1 conf game....but in order to make a bowl...I have to win atleast 2.

8 conf games...1 rival oustide...and then 3 non conf.

without 2 conf wins I cant even make a bowl. So either it should be a 2 win conf goal (lol) or lower the expectation.

Im just asking to review...regardless of the tier...to expect Iowa to make it out of the Big 10 and make it to a bowl...you expect every single team in the Big 10 to make a bowl...and frankly, I have NEVER seen an entire conf make a bowl...AS EXPECTED...remember if iowa is expected to go bowling, that means everyone in the big 10 should.

[trendon]

I see what you are saying, but that is why they are called bonuses, no? I mean, as Buffalo, I get a win goal of 2 or 3. I made a bowl and I am not even good at the game.

[buckeye76]

Shit, I'm just happy to be here...

wingoalsconferencegoalsdifferentteirspaddywackabone....

NDL = FUCK YEAH!(copyrighted by jeffdaddy)

Fixed it for you poundarock.

[pounddarock]

Shit, I'm just happy to be here...

wingoalsconferencegoalsdifferentteirspaddywackabone....

NDL = FUCK YEAH!(copyrighted by jeffdaddy)

Fixed it for you poundarock.

thanks man..I was wondering what his post meant..now I get it.

Apologies to jeffdaddy..how much in royalties do I owe ya now?