NDL Forum

Shel tell me you don't agree with this. Denver is doing exactly what the Niners are doing with Alex Skith but out of an unconventional nfl offense. Now the Niners have Mike Crabtree, Vernon Davis, Tedd Gin, Braylon Edwards, and Tedd Ginn: all top ten draft picks.

Treble throws to Erik Decker, Eddie Royal (he would be a sick slot WR on the Pats, saints etc) and first round pick Demarius Thomas which is a pick I didn't understand in the draft. (Played at Ga Tech flex offense)

What they are doing may not work in the long haul but he's doing well minus his completion percentage is excellent. I would take a qb in a run first offense with a TD/INT ration of 7:1.

I will say Denvers D needs to start getting some serious love!!! John Fox def knows his defense.

Edit: don't forget about frank gore compared to Willis mcgahee.

packsyD22 wrote:I will say Denvers D needs to start getting some serious love

Exactly.

packsyD22 wrote:Now the Niners have Mike Crabtree, Vernon Davis, Tedd Gin, Braylon Edwards, and Tedd Ginn

Ginn isn't THAT good.

packsyD22 wrote:What they are doing may not work in the long haul

That is one of the points I made on the previous page. It won't work at all unless the defense keeps giving up 14 points or less almost every game, which is highly unlikely.


But yea, the TD:INT ratio is really good, obviously. And I never said he has nothing at all to do with the 4-1. I just don't think he has nearly as much to do with it as most think, and certainly not as much as the defense.

Some things to keep in mind about why this works...

- Ball control offense: Every defense loves an offense that controls the ball and keeps them off of the field. This gives them ore rest / more energy.

- Low Turnovers: Not turning the ball over means that they aren't putting their defense in bad situations when the D takes the field. Even though they may not score frequently, they are chewing up clock and then punting the ball down the field, which helps them increase field position.

- Attitude: This sounds a bit odd, but if you've played, you get this... there is a big boost in confidence when you can successfully run. It feeds the ego. You feel more dominant. Likewise, if you can get the running game going and start grinding out yards, it does tear at the will of the defense. In essence, it wears them down.

- Leadership: The guys are starting to feed off of him. Look at the reactions of the defensive players on the sidelines during that last drive. Or just listen to Von Miller after the game. This goes back to attitude as well.

I'm not saying this lasts forever or the defense doesn't deserve credit, they are playing great. But there is a lot more to what is going on with this team than most people think. And this isn't new territory for John Fox either. Fox knows how important a dominating running game is, as his time in Carolina suggests.

Personally, I enjoyed watching the game last night. I know most people didn't. But this is something unique and interesting in the game. Of course, I'm the same guy that can watch every Ga Tech game and never get bored.

shel311 wrote:certainly not as much as the defense.

i'd argue that by not turning the ball over that much he is also helping the defense

Good point w field position Reign. Seemed like Jets started inside their own 20 all night.

ajalves wrote:

shel311 wrote:certainly not as much as the defense.

i'd argue that by not turning the ball over that much he is also helping the defense

guess i should have read reign's post, but yeah

ajalves wrote:

shel311 wrote:certainly not as much as the defense.

i'd argue that by not turning the ball over that much he is also helping the defense

Fair point, I'll concede that.


But you gotta concede that 2 of 8 and struggling to get to 100 yards passing won't provide sustainable winning, even if you never turn the ball over.

We'll meet in the middle lol.

ReignOnU wrote:I'm not saying this lasts forever or the defense doesn't deserve credit

I do believe these were 2 of my main bullet points.



We seem to be coming together(no homo) in this thread. BOO!!! That's not as fun.

Enjoy it now and give tebow most of the credit but just like the wildcat, defenses will adjust and he will eventually need to improve in the pass game to make this type of run offense effective.

He has impressed the hell out of me as I never "despised" the guy but I "hated" the media suck off.

I'm actually excited to watch a broncos game since he has been in place and he is a hell of a competitor and makes it hard not to like this guy with how he competes and goes all out every single play.

shel311 wrote:

ajalves wrote:

shel311 wrote:certainly not as much as the defense.

i'd argue that by not turning the ball over that much he is also helping the defense

Fair point, I'll concede that.


But you gotta concede that 2 of 8 and struggling to get to 100 yards passing won't provide sustainable winning, even if you never turn the ball over.

We'll meet in the middle lol.

if i had to guess, i'd say no, it wont. But i also wouldnt put it past this guy to work his ass off and make himself into a reliable enough passer in the future.

i'm 60/40 on the shel side but i certainly am not near as definitive as shel is on the subject... which is odd because i'm normally a 'stat guy' first. football is a much more dynamic game tho to make it that simple.

also, as a disclaimer, i love Tebow. i think in a world of complete douchefucks that he's a breath of fresh air no matter how much love/hate he gets. is he over the top and a little bit of a bible thumper, sure... but he means well and geniunely cares about other people which i value.

he's not a good qb but he's a big reason for the 4-1. Reign's post nailed alot of the points. The thing is, ALOT of stuff needs to fall into place for Tebow to be successful. He, himself, unlike a Rodgers or a Manning or a Brady or a Ben isn't going to win a game on his own when others around him are failing. He needs his defense to perform, he needs decent running behind him, etc. He can't just take the ball and go.

with that said, i don't think what is happening is sustainable unless his game improves. a fumble here or there by a WR or a RB in bad field position and they get down 2 scores to a decent team and they almost have no shot of coming back.

and.... he DEFINITELY gets all the love for the win. the defense is a side note on any sports show i've heard this morning. but thats because Tebow is so wildly popular... regardless he gets all the love and when they lose all the hate.

DRiccio21 wrote:i'm 60/40 on the shel side but i certainly am not near as definitive as shel is on the subject....

he isnt even on his own side

its pent up Jamarcus Russell jealousy

DRiccio21 wrote:is he over the top and a little bit of a bible thumper, sure... but he means well and geniunely cares about other people.

Did you just describe jsence?


I think Tebow is a very smart QB. He is doing what he can with what he has at the moment.
I also think he is doing what he needs to, to learn the speed of the game. I think we will see him start to become a better QB after he has a few games under his belt.
He will start to learn the timing of the game and will start to have that rapport built up with his WR's to learn their timing.

As I think Reign posted, once you get into the level that the NFL is, there is much more going on than meets the eye.
You hear announcers every week state that in college, WR's were always open. In the NFL, no one is open. You have to learn the timing of their routes and anticipate where they will be and throw the ball to a spot, not to a WR.

I agree with you guys about the media suck off...but I could not have said it better than Dave did:

DRiccio21 wrote:in a world of complete douchefucks that he's a breath of fresh air.

ajalves wrote:

DRiccio21 wrote:i'm 60/40 on the shel side but i certainly am not near as definitive as shel is on the subject....

he isnt even on his own side

its pent up Jamarcus Russell jealousy

these debates are becoming to predictable!!!

I'm telling, 1st page was fun, going back and forth. We had the requisite one guy get upset, but otherwise it was a good debate.

Then, we basically all started posting the same exact thing, all in agreement lol.

Debate- SETTLED


Time to move on to the next one.

Any debate with mike and shel hating each other is always ndl board gold.

Let's keep that goin for a while.

Cnasty wrote:He has impressed the hell out of me as I never "despised" the guy but I "hated" the media suck off.

Nole4real wrote:

Cnasty wrote:He has impressed the hell out of me as I never "despised" the guy but I "hated" the media suck off.

he should have let that car hit her

LOL!, now who sounds like they know a little too much!

A- work though

...and it was a van

He plays to win the game!