NDL Forum

DRiccio21 wrote:

brwnbear wrote:

DRiccio21 wrote:i always thought Kansas was a good big 10 fit. they are an AAU school, strong basketball, new state for them

UConn would have trouble as they aren't AAU which i never understood given strong academics

Kansas offers no significant TV markets. You only add Kansas if you want to reduce the average payout each school gets.

Kansas City is a pretty decent TV market. what am i missing?

31st TV market. Surrounded by states with low populations. Worth approximately $13M per year. Below the average share of $27M each school currently receives.

By comparison - Maryland brings in the 9th TV market. Worth approximately $33M per year

The next logical move is to target:
- Atlanta - 8th TV Market
- Florida - Tampa - Miami - Orlando - 13th, 16th, and 19th TV Markets
- NC - Charlotte - Raleigh - 24th and 27th TV Markets

brwnbear wrote:

DRiccio21 wrote:

brwnbear wrote:

DRiccio21 wrote:i always thought Kansas was a good big 10 fit. they are an AAU school, strong basketball, new state for them

UConn would have trouble as they aren't AAU which i never understood given strong academics

Kansas offers no significant TV markets. You only add Kansas if you want to reduce the average payout each school gets.

Kansas City is a pretty decent TV market. what am i missing?

31st TV market. Surrounded by states with low populations. Worth approximately $13M per year. Below the average share of $27M each school currently receives.

By comparison - Maryland brings in the 9th TV market. Worth approximately $33M per year

The next logical move is to target:
- Atlanta - 8th TV Market
- Florida - Tampa - Miami - Orlando - 13th, 16th, and 19th TV Markets
- NC - Charlotte - Raleigh - 24th and 27th TV Markets

I don't see the Big 10 or east snagging anyone who would draw significant viewership in those markets.

When schools dont care about money anymore, I will agree with you. Until then, the BTN is the engine that has driven realignment and its becoming more profitable.

- you dont think GT or NC would like to have an extra $20M in annual revenue?

What about Virginia?

Jim Delaney played basketball at North Carolina. History, tradition, geography, and logic mean nothing anymore when it comes to conferences.

brwnbear wrote:When schools dont care about money anymore, I will agree with you. Until then, the BTN is the engine that has driven realignment and its becoming more profitable.

- you dont think GT or NC would like to have an extra $20M in annual revenue?

obviously it's all about money... but i don't think their formula is as simple as you're making it out to be.

where was Nebraska's tv market?

Big 10 has also always put a premium on being in the major state school, only game in town, type areas.

DRiccio21 wrote:

brwnbear wrote:When schools dont care about money anymore, I will agree with you. Until then, the BTN is the engine that has driven realignment and its becoming more profitable.

- you dont think GT or NC would like to have an extra $20M in annual revenue?

obviously it's all about money... but i don't think their formula is as simple as you're making it out to be.

where was Nebraska's tv market?

Big 10 has also always put a premium on being in the major state school, only game in town, type areas.

With Nebraska it was their being a historical, national "brand" that would draw viewers from across the country, not just the limited markets in Nebraska itself. I'm with you. I think Kansas would be a great addition for the reasons you listed but I also prefer 10 team conferences that make sense.

DRiccio21 wrote:

brwnbear wrote:When schools dont care about money anymore, I will agree with you. Until then, the BTN is the engine that has driven realignment and its becoming more profitable.

- you dont think GT or NC would like to have an extra $20M in annual revenue?

obviously it's all about money... but i don't think their formula is as simple as you're making it out to be.

where was Nebraska's tv market?

Big 10 has also always put a premium on being in the major state school, only game in town, type areas.

Not following you. Northwestern is in Chicago, Ann Arbor is a short drive from Detroit. Minn is in the twin cities, Bloomington is a short drive to Indy.

I have never heard that the Big Ten was interested in being the only game in town. I think that based on the strenghts of their major teams and rural location of their campuses, professional teams avoided them.

Nebraska was a special case because it brought with it the opportunity to play a championship game which brought in more revenue. It also started the realignment process.

brwnbear wrote:
Nebraska was a special case because it brought with it the opportunity to play a championship game which brought in more revenue. It also started the realignment process.

why is Nebraska a 'special case'?

by your theory they would have went with Georgia Tech or UNC or some other school at that point regardless of realignment and the championship game. why not kill 2 birds with one stone? why settle?

its not as simple as looking at the TV market and saying... 'they are next on the list'.

The Big Ten does have a rule that states that it has to be contiguous states. So to get to Georgia Tech they'd have to go through North Carolina. a lot of people see the Rutgers/Maryland moves as actually setting up something else because of this. They also had good TV money so it made sense all around.

DRiccio21 wrote:

brwnbear wrote:
Nebraska was a special case because it brought with it the opportunity to play a championship game which brought in more revenue. It also started the realignment process.

why is Nebraska a 'special case'?

by your theory they would have went with Georgia Tech or UNC or some other school at that point regardless of realignment and the championship game. why not kill 2 birds with one stone? why settle?

its not as simple as looking at the TV market and saying... 'they are next on the list'.

Nebraska is/was special because it started the process. You have to break up a conference to start the realignment process. The B12 was the weakest with Nebraska willing to leave. Easy choice.

Its not my theory by the way, its what Delaney has said he will do. Maryland is proof.

LetsGoPeay wrote:The Big Ten does have a rule that states that it has to be contiguous states. So to get to Georgia Tech they'd have to go through North Carolina. a lot of people see the Rutgers/Maryland moves as actually setting up something else because of this. They also had good TV money so it made sense all around.

I dont think thats true otherwise the Big Ten Presidents wouldnt have approved an invitation to Texas when it was rummored to be moving to the west coast.

brwnbear wrote:

LetsGoPeay wrote:The Big Ten does have a rule that states that it has to be contiguous states. So to get to Georgia Tech they'd have to go through North Carolina. a lot of people see the Rutgers/Maryland moves as actually setting up something else because of this. They also had good TV money so it made sense all around.

I dont think thats true otherwise the Big Ten Presidents wouldnt have approved an invitation to Texas when it was rummored to be moving to the west coast.

if contiguous means what i think lol.. how was texas getting in with no missouri teams and arkansas or oklahoma teams? lol.

I think you are overestimating GT's TV pull. The SEC dominates the ATL market. More Auburn fans in ATL than Georgia Tech. Probably more bama and Tennessee fans as well. Not to mention the UGA contingency.

autiger730 wrote:I think you are overestimating GT's TV pull. The SEC dominates the ATL market. More Auburn fans in ATL than Georgia Tech. Probably more bama and Tennessee fans as well. Not to mention the UGA contingency.

That doesn't matter. Just the fact that they're in the Atlanta market means that the Big Ten could push to get their network on the TV packages there. Whether anybody actually watches doesn't matter.

I never in a million years would believe that UNC would ever leave the ACC, unless it was completely falling apart and they had no choice.

big Ten already really had the KC market, but solidified it with Nebraksa. Kansas brings nothing money wise to the table. Unless, they want to try to come get OU, OKST possible Texas and Tech.


I'm still California dreaming of a Pac-16. That'd really piss in Colorado's cheerios.I'd take the Big 10 at this point though or SEC with out a championship game and missing Louisville the Big XII is just awaiting a big raid. Longhorn Network really botched up the original PAC-16 deal and OU's president sticking his foot in mouth talking about it publically didn't help either.

nick wrote:

brwnbear wrote:

LetsGoPeay wrote:The Big Ten does have a rule that states that it has to be contiguous states. So to get to Georgia Tech they'd have to go through North Carolina. a lot of people see the Rutgers/Maryland moves as actually setting up something else because of this. They also had good TV money so it made sense all around.

I dont think thats true otherwise the Big Ten Presidents wouldnt have approved an invitation to Texas when it was rummored to be moving to the west coast.

if contiguous means what i think lol.. how was texas getting in with no missouri teams and arkansas or oklahoma teams? lol.

It would have been a Texas-Oklahoma package deal and if OU balked, as all parties ultimately did, to get Texas in your conference you waive whatever rules you have to in order to make it happen.

LetsGoPeay wrote:

autiger730 wrote:I think you are overestimating GT's TV pull. The SEC dominates the ATL market. More Auburn fans in ATL than Georgia Tech. Probably more bama and Tennessee fans as well. Not to mention the UGA contingency.

That doesn't matter. Just the fact that they're in the Atlanta market means that the Big Ten could push to get their network on the TV packages there. Whether anybody actually watches doesn't matter.

If that's the case, they could push for it be on without a team.

Mtwasik wrote:I never in a million years would believe that UNC would ever leave the ACC, unless it was completely falling apart and they had no choice.

Here is what I think UNC is looking at...

Last year BT schools like Wisconsin earned roughly $20M more in Media rights than the UNC. If the ACC loses its grip on the DC market (with Maryland gone and a possible Virginia exit), the gap will probably grow by around $5M.

The total earnings for NC was $76M ($17M from donations) and it had a profit of $560,000 after it received aid from its school for $7M. So in essence it lost $6.5M in 2011. How long will taxpayers and students be willing to supplement the NC athletic budget, specially if it grows has to pony up another $5M per year?

As as example, a school like Wisconsin earned $96M while having almost the same amount of donations ($17M) and ticket sales. The only difference was media revenue. How long can NC compete if it has to operate on a budget that is $20M less than its peers and while being subsidized by the academic school to the tune of $7M - $12M? I know that history and tradition play a large role, and there is a concern that donations may be hurt, but even if donations went to $0, your still looking at an increase in overall revenue. Worse case, donations drop by 30% and your still earning $15M more with the BTN contracts before you count for the additional TV sets that Maryland and Rutgers bring in.

How much does $15M per year buy you? ALOT. Increase in facilities, better coaches, bigger recruiting budget, the ability to stop taking aid from the university. Remember, the Presidents and boards are the ones that make the decision, not the athletic director, and they are ultimately responsible for the schools academic budget.

The kicker is inclusion into the CIC, which is basically a lobbying body that funnels BILLIONS of dollars to the BT universities in research grants. It is the richest co-op in the world and attracted $8B in research grants split amoungst the BT in 2011. Double the amount of the IVY league. By comparisons, the ACC has the ACCIAC which has a total of 1 part time employee and does not release its figures.