2048 Season Thread: White Men Can Jump??!

[DRiccio21]

the hatred for cyborg happened after his career. during his career it was mostly curiosity and confusion.

Team Dave and Team Shel don't seem to be on the same page.

we're on the same page.

i'm not saying people didn't know something was up. people knew from the start.

I meant that nobody cared to the point that they do now at the time... he just kinda played and was incredible and moved along with the cyborg jokes. there wasn't crazy hatred and campaigns to shut him down or anything like there is now that he's up for the hall. as I've said in the past, I actually thought he should have been retired. but we decided against it so he was fair game.

[Seeitsaveit13]

I know he was messed with but you guys knew this and let him play. If you let him keep going and that was fine then it makes no sense to not vote him for the hall

I don't know that "you guys let him play" is accurate. I don't remember it being put to a vote. It may have been, and I'm sure someone can dig and find it, but I don't remember it being anything more than a commish decision at the time.

you don't remember very well.

I offered to retire him in the forums MULTIPLE times. Corey (and AJ) were the leaders in the clubhouse saying I shouldn't retire him and that he was in the game and should be used (i'm not sure if it was on this or the old boards but i'd love to have the old posts rehashed). there actually was never a single person who even sorta agreed that he should be retired. Cause I don't like even the suggestion of cheating, it bothers me. so I was very open and up front and if anyone did have a problem with him I probably would have just stopped using him. I never really thought much of it because when I traded for him he was on Detroit's trade block (I think he had just come off an injury the year before) and nobody was even trying to get him other than me cause he was 30 and it looked like he was starting to fade.

You keep taking this personally like I'm saying YOU cheated. You didn't do anything wrong. I never said you did.

And all I said was that I didn't remember it being put to a vote... Which you didn't prove it was or wasn't.

You are correct in saying that I don't remember you offering to retire him. I'd be curious to see what I did or didn't say on that topic.

I can assure I take none of this personally nor do I think anyone is accusing me of anything.

this has nothing to do with me really other than he was on my team later in his career. i'm not even sure he'd be a Spitter in the hall... his best years were mostly on the LOLCats.

you've known me for a decade now, i'm assuming you understand my quirks by now... this is mostly about consistency for me. like I said in the post above, not voting for him is fine, but the explanations to the new guys aren't remotely fair if you were to look back on his time in the league. the hatred for cyborg happened after his career. during his career it was mostly curiosity and confusion. people definitely had issues with the incredible performance (which were addressed) but he had his warts too (injuries/stamina), it wasn't always this sure fire slam dunk superstar his whole career. there were some doubts along the way despite his absurd greatness.

That's fair. It just sounded like you felt that we were slighting you for taking him in.

Consistency wise, I've been in the NO camp a long time. And the only reason I "took up the cause" so to speak, was because I didn't want to see him get in because of new guys just looking at his stats and going "oh shit, this guy is a sure fire HOF" without having any context. We know he was messed with behind the scenes, by someone exploiting their commish access. As long as they take that into account before voting, I'm cool with that.

I've probably gone too far every other year or so (mainly because someone steps up and questions my yearly post) and trended more towards mudslinging than just simple informing. That's on me. If new folks realize the context before voting, I'm cool with that. It seems like there's enough turnover that he's going to get in eventually. Hell, some folks may just be tired of hearing me and AJ bitch each year and may just vote him in to spite us. It can't be that many votes at this point, 2 or 3 maybe?

[GeorgesGoons]

Dave is correct, I'll never vote for him. Mainly due to Bear fucking with the league, which all happened before I started (I believe).

Can we put an asterisks next to all the championship teams he was on as well?

[DRiccio21]

Dave is correct, I'll never vote for him. Mainly due to Bear fucking with the league, which all happened before I started (I believe).

Can we put an asterisks next to all the championship teams he was on as well?

(rushing quickly to check if he was still on my roster in 2042)

[Cnasty]

the hatred for cyborg happened after his career. during his career it was mostly curiosity and confusion.

Team Dave and Team Shel don't seem to be on the same page.

we're on the same page.

i'm not saying people didn't know something was up. people knew from the start.

I meant that nobody cared to the point that they do now at the time.

I don't agree with that considering all the snarky comments, defense bear had almost every single sim or time he was brought up, and the way nick and others bashed him.

Now its an annual public service announcement plain and simple.

[Seeitsaveit13]

the hatred for cyborg happened after his career. during his career it was mostly curiosity and confusion.

Team Dave and Team Shel don't seem to be on the same page.

but we decided against it so he was fair game.

This is the only other part that bugs me. Who is "we"?

I don't remember a poll, and you can't find the posts. So if it truly was PM's and Admin talk like you believe it may have been, then the "we" is a lot smaller group.

I don't feel as though I was asked "should he be retired" and if I was, I'd bet that I said yes, absolutely. Doesn't mean I wasn't in the minority (if there was a poll or discussion), in which case, so be it. Majority rules. Also, as corey said, we were a lot less informed as a group, which is why Bear was able to get away with much of what he did. Reign and Trendon were the only ones who may have noticed, and that's when Trendon wasn't marauding around Costa Rica or moving to Denver...

Side note: Holy shit, we survived our commish moving out of the country, and dropping off the map. We dah real MVP here...

[DRiccio21]

Dave is correct, I'll never vote for him. Mainly due to Bear fucking with the league, which all happened before I started (I believe).

Can we put an asterisks next to all the championship teams he was on as well?

(rushing quickly to check if he was still on my roster in 2042)

holy shit, he's been retired for almost 15 seasons now!

[Seeitsaveit13]

the hatred for cyborg happened after his career. during his career it was mostly curiosity and confusion.

Team Dave and Team Shel don't seem to be on the same page.

we're on the same page.

i'm not saying people didn't know something was up. people knew from the start.

I meant that nobody cared to the point that they do now at the time.

I don't agree with that considering all the snarky comments, defense bear had almost every single sim or time he was brought up, and the way nick and others bashed him.

Now its an annual public service announcement plain and simple.

I seriously would stop at 1 post each year if it didn't seem like every other year someone (not always Dave) calls me out for it. I just feel the need to explain myself so it doesn't seem like I'm a moon landing truther or something.

[Seeitsaveit13]

Dave is correct, I'll never vote for him. Mainly due to Bear fucking with the league, which all happened before I started (I believe).

Can we put an asterisks next to all the championship teams he was on as well?

(rushing quickly to check if he was still on my roster in 2042)

holy shit, he's been retired for almost 15 seasons now!

How the hell long do we leave people on the ballot? He'd be off Bernie's ballots by now...

[shel311]

Did Cyborg break the game or Wu?

Wu.

If I recall, Reign deleted him, which threw off every players built-in ID# or something.

[Cnasty]

My biggest piece for mentioning it as we have had some turnover lately and i honestly think they should know some of the history.

I don't think I've smeared him so much as provided the facts we all know so they can make an informed decision.

Thats all.

[Cnasty]

How the hell long do we leave people on the ballot? He'd be off Bernie's ballots by now...

10 seasons. I mentioned this earlier today actually.

[Seeitsaveit13]

How the hell long do we leave people on the ballot? He'd be off Bernie's ballots by now...

10 seasons. I mentioned this earlier today actually.

Ahh. So there's a year or two in there extra because of moving from Bernie ballots to in game ballots I guess.

[DRiccio21]

the hatred for cyborg happened after his career. during his career it was mostly curiosity and confusion.

Team Dave and Team Shel don't seem to be on the same page.

but we decided against it so he was fair game.

This is the only other part that bugs me. Who is "we"?

I don't remember a poll, and you can't find the posts. So if it truly was PM's and Admin talk like you believe it may have been, then the "we" is a lot smaller group.

I don't feel as though I was asked "should he be retired" and if I was, I'd bet that I said yes, absolutely. Doesn't mean I wasn't in the minority (if there was a poll or discussion), in which case, so be it. Majority rules. Also, as corey said, we were a lot less informed as a group, which is why Bear was able to get away with much of what he did. Reign and Trendon were the only ones who may have noticed, and that's when Trendon wasn't marauding around Costa Rica or moving to Denver...

Side note: Holy shit, we survived our commish moving out of the country, and dropping off the map. We dah real MVP here...

i looked quickly and couldn't find the posts.

i can assure you, without question, it was brought up. i wouldn't say it if it wasn't the case. and nobody said we should retire him. reign was the commish at the time, i actually think the PM's were to him. i might have texted corey and shel for their opinions. i always felt guilty having him on my roster. i needed the reassurance that he was fine to use and i always got it.

the thing that might also get misunderstood is I was one of the bashers! i used to agree with shel and nick and everyone. but he kept playing in the league WITHOUT issue (yes people thought it was absurd but that was the extent of it while he played). when i traded for him he wasn't even playing good on Detroit, came off an injury and had like a 10 stamina. I found posts from AJ and Corey talking about how he wasn't going to last on my team and was going to pitch 3 ip a game and get hurt 10 games in.

[nick]

the reason Thomas wasnt retired was because when Wu was retired, the entire league data file got fucked up so no one wanted that to happen again

also "mmm danone" is stuck in my head. so

[shel311]

the hatred for cyborg happened after his career. during his career it was mostly curiosity and confusion.

Team Dave and Team Shel don't seem to be on the same page.

Sounds like I figured this out in 2012 the moment we realized Thomas was in the league, and you guys just took 3-5 years to catch up.

[DRiccio21]

the reason Thomas wasnt retired was because when Wu was retired, the entire league data file got fucked up so no one wanted that to happen again

also "mmm danone" is stuck in my head. so

this issue was discussed and i recall saying i would just release him and we could leave him in free agency which would have accomplished the same thing

[DRiccio21]

who messed with him? trendon or bear? it also is worth noting that bear got rid of him after a few years of regression in his late 20's. bear doesn't exactly have the rep for a guy who would have taken the foot off the throat if he knowingly had the trump card.

[Seeitsaveit13]

the reason Thomas wasnt retired was because when Wu was retired, the entire league data file got fucked up so no one wanted that to happen again

also "mmm danone" is stuck in my head. so

this issue was discussed and i recall saying i would just release him and we could leave him in free agency which would have accomplished the same thing

Good point by nick. Forgot that.

And there were a lot of CPU teams then. One of those probably would have signed him. I think I'm starting to see why he got to keep playing though

[Uuaww]

I want to say every player that was messed with was by bear. trendon's method of cheating was totally different. He would get elite IFAs added to his team that weren't in FA. I don't think trendon did anything else but could be wrong.