NDL Forum

You don't understand brwnbear.... That's not their money. It belongs to the government and they are just holding it until the govt decides how to spend it for them.

so shift, for someone like me. who comes from nothing (had probably 300 bucks to my name when i moved to NYC and no bank accounts or anything)... publicly educated... worked hard, never cut corners, doesn't do drugs, donates his time and money to good causes, pays his taxes, takes care of his family, employs 3 other people (has got 10+ into the industry), has no debt ...i'm still not doing enough for you? and with all that said... i've done and achieved dick compared to what the true top 1% has achieved to get where they are.

i paid more in taxes last year than i would have guessed i'd ever make as an annual income. i paid more in taxes last year than some people pay in their entire lives combined. but thats not enough?

all my hard work and smart investments are ok to be taken from me because other people made stupid decisions?

guess what, i still fucking rent. i never bought a house. i made money during the real estate boom and had mostly real estate developers as clients cause those were the guys making the coin back then begging me to invest money into their deals or to buy homes from them. i could have afforded it, but i realized what was going on wasn't sustainable...i made a choice and i've lived with it. i didn't see the $$$ about flipping properties. i knew that if god forbid something happened to me or my career, i wasn't ready to take on a huge mortgage. those are decisions that adults make. if you fuck up with your decisions, why should i have to bail you out. sugar coat it anyway you like, it is me bailing you out.

and i'm no fucking genius, i've had years where i lost tons of money in the market... i make mistakes like everyone else, but i make mistakes that effect me and that i can make up for.

your examples about handicapped and mentally ill are ridiculous. again, because i'm a capitalist i don't want those people taken care of? give me a fucking break dude.

if you want to blame politicians for taking bribes and being corrupt, we're on the same team. you want to start taking money from people because they've achieved success than you can go fly a kite.

DRiccio21 wrote:so shift, for someone like me. who comes from nothing (had probably 300 bucks to my name when i moved to NYC and no bank accounts or anything)... publicly educated... worked hard, never cut corners, doesn't do drugs, donates his time and money to good causes, pays his taxes, takes care of his family, employs 3 other people (has got 10+ into the industry), has no debt ...i'm still not doing enough for you?

i paid more in taxes last year than i would have guessed i'd ever make as an annual income. i paid more in taxes last year than some people pay in their entire lives combined. but thats not enough?

all my hard work and smart investments are ok to be taken from me because other people made stupid decisions?

guess what, i still fucking rent. i never bought a house. i made money during the real estate boom and had mostly real estate developers as clients cause those were the guys making the coin back then begging me to invest money into their deals or to buy homes from them. i could have afforded it, but i realized what was going on wasn't sustainable...i made a choice and i've lived with it. i didn't see the $$$ about flipping properties. i knew that if god forbid something happened to me or my career, i wasn't ready to take on a huge mortgage. those are decisions that adults make. if you fuck up with your decisions, why should i have to bail you out. sugar coat it anyway you like, it is me bailing you out.

and i'm no fucking genius, i've had years where i lost tons of money in the market... i make mistakes like everyone else, but i make mistakes that effect me and that i can make up for.

your examples about handicapped and mentally ill are ridiculous. again, because i'm a capitalist i don't want those people taken care of? give me a fucking break dude.

I never said I was against you specifically. I commend you on your rags to riches, but like you said you were given a scholarship and like you said you got lucky. Not everyone gets the opportunities that some get. A majority of us have already figured that we here discussing this are hard workers. I never said you should go broke or lose all your money to support the government. With historically low tax rates and the country in shambles we need something. We need reform across the board and it needs to happen sooner than later. The so called trickle down economics has failed us and we need to do something about it.

And as for my examples, did you not specifically state to show you anyone that didn't have a chance to make it. Your black and white examples don't stand up to those examples because those people need the help of the government. Who is going to pay for it? Do we get rid of Medicare and Medicaid? Do we get rid of Social Security? This is what is being proposed by the Republicans and they stall everything else until they get what they want. How does that help the country? We need something done and the Occupy Wall Street movement has either been a call to arms to some and a hated issue for some, but it is forcing the debate on the fact that the way shit is going right now is not going to work.

And just because you think I'm a socialist, you don't think I don't want to make money for myself and my family? You and I sir are really not so different we just have opposing ideas on how to take care of others.

Some people just need to find an excuse.

Shiftdnb wrote:
I never said I was against you specifically. I commend you on your rags to riches, but like you said you were given a scholarship and like you said you got lucky. Not everyone gets the opportunities that some get. A majority of us have already figured that we here discussing this are hard workers. I never said you should go broke or lose all your money to support the government. With historically low tax rates and the country in shambles we need something. We need reform across the board and it needs to happen sooner than later. The so called trickle down economics has failed us and we need to do something about it.

And as for my examples, did you not specifically state to show you anyone that didn't have a chance to make it. Your black and white examples don't stand up to those examples because those people need the help of the government. Who is going to pay for it? Do we get rid of Medicare and Medicaid? Do we get rid of Social Security? This is what is being proposed by the Republicans and they stall everything else until they get what they want. How does that help the country? We need something done and the Occupy Wall Street movement has either been a call to arms to some and a hated issue for some, but it is forcing the debate on the fact that the way shit is going right now is not going to work.

And just because you think I'm a socialist, you don't think I don't want to make money for myself and my family? You and I sir are really not so different we just have opposing ideas on how to take care of others.

thank god they picked my name out of a hat to give me that scholarship... boy the scholarship fairy was sure kind to me.

there isn't 1 republican (and i'm an indenpendant, i'm just fiscally conservative... as cliche as that may be) who would want 'crack babies' and 'mentally retarded' people to be left to fend for themselves. not one. you know me by now in terms of how i feel about equality and how i feel about taking care of others... to even infer that i don't care about the person next to me is completely disrespectful and completely untrue

and i think you're a socialist because the things you propose aren't going to make things better. unless they change the rules of capitalism, by raising taxes and making more regulations we're only going to lose jobs and lose inovative people from our country who will go elsewhere so they can be compensated better.

DRiccio21 wrote:

Shiftdnb wrote:
I never said I was against you specifically. I commend you on your rags to riches, but like you said you were given a scholarship and like you said you got lucky. Not everyone gets the opportunities that some get. A majority of us have already figured that we here discussing this are hard workers. I never said you should go broke or lose all your money to support the government. With historically low tax rates and the country in shambles we need something. We need reform across the board and it needs to happen sooner than later. The so called trickle down economics has failed us and we need to do something about it.

And as for my examples, did you not specifically state to show you anyone that didn't have a chance to make it. Your black and white examples don't stand up to those examples because those people need the help of the government. Who is going to pay for it? Do we get rid of Medicare and Medicaid? Do we get rid of Social Security? This is what is being proposed by the Republicans and they stall everything else until they get what they want. How does that help the country? We need something done and the Occupy Wall Street movement has either been a call to arms to some and a hated issue for some, but it is forcing the debate on the fact that the way shit is going right now is not going to work.

And just because you think I'm a socialist, you don't think I don't want to make money for myself and my family? You and I sir are really not so different we just have opposing ideas on how to take care of others.

thank god they picked my name out of a hat to give me that scholarship... boy the scholarship fairy was sure kind to me.

there isn't 1 republican (and i'm an indenpendant, i'm just fiscally conservative... as cliche as that may be) who would want 'crack babies' and 'mentally retarded' people to be left to fend for themselves. not one. you know me by now in terms of how i feel about equality and how i feel about taking care of others... to even infer that i don't care about the person next to me is completely disrespectful and completely untrue

and i think you're a socialist because the things you propose aren't going to make things better. unless they change the rules of capitalism, by raising taxes and making more regulations we're only going to lose jobs and lose inovative people from our country who will go elsewhere so they can be compensated better.

When did I ever attack you specifically and say you didn't feel for these people?

it is easily inferred that you're saying that you want to help the less fortunate and we don't.

that couldn't be further from the truth.

we want to help those that need the help and let those who choose to slack and make bad choices live with their choices in a reasonable way.

DRiccio21 wrote:if you want to blame politicians for taking bribes and being corrupt, we're on the same team. you want to start taking money from people because they've achieved success than you can go fly a kite.

I couldn't have said it better myself. The same people who say they want the wealthy to pay more simply because they have more, are the same people who are being just as selfish as the people they admonish.

I personally admire what you've done and applaud you for it; too many people in that situation where they have nothing or come from nothing simply expect to be given what they want. What you did is the personification of the American dream. It's out there to be had, but you gotta be willing to sacrifice to get it. Sometimes it means sacrificing almost everything though, and that's where we all have to make decisions on what we want to do and how much money we want to go after.

Riccio, so how many million dollars are you making anyway that we want to take away? Are any of us among the 1%? Does anyone know the magnitude of money we're talking about to get into the 1%?

Shiftdnb wrote:Riccio, so how many million dollars are you making anyway that we want to take away? Are any of us among the 1%? Does anyone know the magnitude of money we're talking about to get into the 1%?

Ok, but who dictates that it should just be the top 1%?

And what is to say that that won't be enough, that it won't become the top 2%?

or then the top 10%?

this has nothing to do with me shift.

i could make 20k a year or 20k a week and this would be how i feel. i make a good living but i'm sure there are other guys in this league who make more than me, i just don't mind talking about financial stuff. i take pride in what i've accomplished and i don't mind mentioning things like this when topics come up to explain my history. i'm damn well sure people in here have higher net worths than me... i started from zero, gotta have a trust fund baby or 2 in here somewhere.

i work for a billionaire, he was actually on mad money tonight with Cramer, he is the first guy in the office still and he's 70 something years old and is worth like 6 billion dollars. i couldn't fathom him having to pay an extra penny out of his pocket to pay for someone like my dad who sits on his butt everyday for the last 20 years... and i love my father more than anything. its just not the right thing.

DRiccio21 wrote:this has nothing to do with me shift.

i could make 20k a year or 20k a week and this would be how i feel.

i work for a billionaire, he was actually on mad money tonight with Cramer, he is the first guy in the office still and he's 70 something years old and is worth like 6 billion dollars. i couldn't fathom him having to pay an extra penny out of his pocket to pay for someone like my dad who sits on his butt everyday for the last 20 years... and i love my father more than anything. its just not the right thing.

Okay let's get off the social welfare a bit and talk about what he could contribute more money to...What about military spending, I'm sure some of his financial interests are helped by the military in some way shape or form (all he has to own is one piece of anything foreign). What about infrastructure? Does his business investments have any trucks on the road? He has 6 billion fucking dollars, why does one human being have to have that amount of money and refuse to move the tax brackets back to it was before the Bush Tax cuts?

We can argue day and night about who takes advantage of systems and taxes are or aren't the answer. There comes a point though when enough is enough and obviously the way things have been going for the past couple years since the Bush Tax cuts, that shit isn't working. What do we do? Do we tear everything down and try over? Do we find revenue or do we cut programs like Medicare and Medicaid?

He should pay taxes the same way every other american has to. This man has started and sold 3 companies for billions of dollars. Hes not only single handidly created jobs for and employed thousands of people but investors in Ivax from beginning to end made something like 6000% in that position. Thats creating wealth, that is where our country grows from and how our country got where is... Thats where you get revenues to cut the defecits. A fucking genius starts his own company,basically invents generic drugs (which allow people affordable medication) and he sells it to a bigger company and he is now doing it all over again.

But now after 50 years of working his balls off, creating ridiculous wealth for himself and others,he owes more? My company I was partners in wouldnt have been acquired if it wasnt for him, I get clients constantly just by mentioning that we manage his money. This man has created stuff and changed the world thru hard work and capitalism and if we do whatyou're proposing the future geniuses and entrepreneurs will go elsewhere where they have more business friendly policies.

innovation and creativity is what drives our society and our economy and what provides jobs, pays taxes and allows for progress in all avenues of life. b

If you want to keep going. That man probably has created a few thousand millionaires and a few of them are worth hundreds of millions. He is the largest donor to I believe both miami and fiu. He's a ridiculous philanthropist in ways I cant possibly describe. He's SINGLE HANDIDLY changed the landscape of the city of miami...hes one of the most powerful people in israel as well.

That wealth he created for those thousands of new millionaires pay a shit ton of taxes that otherwise never would have existed without him. Those people spend money on products,create their own companies, donate, etc etc.

But trickle down economics doesnt work and this guy 'owes' us more even tho he has worked harder than and taken bigger risks than any of us could possibly fathom because joe public had pipe dreams about flipping multiple houses when they couldnt afford to own any. Yup he owes us way more, just because you can't fathom that type of wealth.

Shiftdnb wrote:

DRiccio21 wrote:this has nothing to do with me shift.

i could make 20k a year or 20k a week and this would be how i feel.

i work for a billionaire, he was actually on mad money tonight with Cramer, he is the first guy in the office still and he's 70 something years old and is worth like 6 billion dollars. i couldn't fathom him having to pay an extra penny out of his pocket to pay for someone like my dad who sits on his butt everyday for the last 20 years... and i love my father more than anything. its just not the right thing.

Okay let's get off the social welfare a bit and talk about what he could contribute more money to...What about military spending, I'm sure some of his financial interests are helped by the military in some way shape or form (all he has to own is one piece of anything foreign). What about infrastructure? Does his business investments have any trucks on the road? He has 6 billion fucking dollars, why does one human being have to have that amount of money and refuse to move the tax brackets back to it was before the Bush Tax cuts?

We can argue day and night about who takes advantage of systems and taxes are or aren't the answer. There comes a point though when enough is enough and obviously the way things have been going for the past couple years since the Bush Tax cuts, that shit isn't working. What do we do? Do we tear everything down and try over? Do we find revenue or do we cut programs like Medicare and Medicaid?

FUCK WALL ST! YOU GAVE THEM TAX CUT'S AND WHAT DID THEY DO? MAKE JOB'S? FUCK NO!! THEY SHIPPED THEM TO INDIA,CHINA,THAILAND... LESS GOV REGLATION'S WHAT WE GET? AIG, AND MORE SCANS THAN YOU CAN SHAKE A STICK AT. AND NOW THE BANKS WANT TO RIP YOU OFF WITH BULLSHIT FEE'S?? HELL YES PEOPLE ARE PISSED OFF. LEAVE MEDICARE AND SOC SEC ALONE!! STOP THE FUCKING BULLSHIT LIE BUSH STARTED IN IRAQ AND AFGANSTAN.. HOW MUCH DO WE PAY TO DEFEND EUROPE? AND FROM WHO? WE ARE SPENDING 20 BILLION A MONTH IN IRAQ AND AFGANSTAN?? IF WALL ST BUSINESS GETS SOME ETHIC'S AND STARTS WORRING ABOUT AMERICA, NO ONE WOULD PROTEST. BEEFY

Shiftdnb wrote:

DRiccio21 wrote:this has nothing to do with me shift.

i could make 20k a year or 20k a week and this would be how i feel.

i work for a billionaire, he was actually on mad money tonight with Cramer, he is the first guy in the office still and he's 70 something years old and is worth like 6 billion dollars. i couldn't fathom him having to pay an extra penny out of his pocket to pay for someone like my dad who sits on his butt everyday for the last 20 years... and i love my father more than anything. its just not the right thing.

Okay let's get off the social welfare a bit and talk about what he could contribute more money to...What about military spending, I'm sure some of his financial interests are helped by the military in some way shape or form (all he has to own is one piece of anything foreign). What about infrastructure? Does his business investments have any trucks on the road? He has 6 billion fucking dollars, why does one human being have to have that amount of money and refuse to move the tax brackets back to it was before the Bush Tax cuts?

We can argue day and night about who takes advantage of systems and taxes are or aren't the answer. There comes a point though when enough is enough and obviously the way things have been going for the past couple years since the Bush Tax cuts, that shit isn't working. What do we do? Do we tear everything down and try over? Do we find revenue or do we cut programs like Medicare and Medicaid?

The top 1% pay 38.2% of ALL federal income tax (The bottom 50% pay 2.7%). How much does it take to appease you? 60%? 70%? And if the government goes out and waste all that money and things dont improve, will you demand 80%?

The government is already going to take 55% of his 6 Billion when he dies. And 55% of the money his kids get when they die. Dont act like he is not contributing his "fair" share.

Shiftdnb wrote:There comes a point though when enough is enough

Who gets to decide? (by the way, not that their is anything wrong with it, but your economic ideas are socialist)

Shiftdnb wrote:Riccio, so how many million dollars are you making anyway that we want to take away? Are any of us among the 1%? Does anyone know the magnitude of money we're talking about to get into the 1%?

To get into the top 1%, you need to have adjusted gross income of $380,354. I dont believe its that hard for a couple to get into the 1%.

Remember, you can't tax income that is already earned. So if a trust fund kid has 6 Billion dollars, you cant tax any of it as income (that was your solution) if it doenst make income.

DRiccio21 wrote:he has worked harder than and taken bigger risks than any of us could possibly fathom because joe public had pipe dreams about flipping multiple houses when they couldnt afford to own any.

Listen, it's one mans opinion who has worked harder than another. You say he works harder than anyone, I say a good teacher works harder than him, a teacher that motivates an inner city kid to do good is just as good as producing a millionaire in my eyes. I say a good nurse works harder than him, a nurse that's trained hundreds of nurses to take care of people in their biggest time of need is the same as producing 1000 millionaires. It's all your opinion.

Shiftdnb wrote:

DRiccio21 wrote:he has worked harder than and taken bigger risks than any of us could possibly fathom because joe public had pipe dreams about flipping multiple houses when they couldnt afford to own any.

Listen, it's one mans opinion who has worked harder than another. You say he works harder than anyone, I say a good teacher works harder than him, a teacher that motivates an inner city kid to do good is just as good as producing a millionaire in my eyes. I say a good nurse works harder than him, a nurse that's trained hundreds of nurses to take care of people in their biggest time of need is the same as producing 1000 millionaires. It's all your opinion.

there ya go playing the 'wealthy people aren't as caring or helpful as others' card.

this man created affordable drugs that allows hundreds of millions of people to get medication they otherwise wouldn't be able to afford.

if you want to live in a fantasy world where a teacher, a nurse, a stock broker, a lawyer, a police officer, a truck driver is as important as that than so be it, but just realize you're living in an absolute fantasy world. any of us could be trained to be at least a couple of those jobs, i'm guessing none of us are intelligent enough to create and invent world changing things.

this man has done more good for the world thru charities and donations than all of us combined could ever do times a thousand.

SIRLOIN wrote: FUCK WALL ST! YOU GAVE THEM TAX CUT'S AND WHAT DID THEY DO? MAKE JOB'S? FUCK NO!! THEY SHIPPED THEM TO INDIA,CHINA,THAILAND... LESS GOV REGLATION'S WHAT WE GET? AIG, AND MORE SCANS THAN YOU CAN SHAKE A STICK AT. AND NOW THE BANKS WANT TO RIP YOU OFF WITH BULLSHIT FEE'S?? HELL YES PEOPLE ARE PISSED OFF. LEAVE MEDICARE AND SOC SEC ALONE!! STOP THE FUCKING BULLSHIT LIE BUSH STARTED IN IRAQ AND AFGANSTAN.. HOW MUCH DO WE PAY TO DEFEND EUROPE? AND FROM WHO? WE ARE SPENDING 20 BILLION A MONTH IN IRAQ AND AFGANSTAN?? IF WALL ST BUSINESS GETS SOME ETHIC'S AND STARTS WORRING ABOUT AMERICA, NO ONE WOULD PROTEST. BEEFY

I always love a little beefy response.