NDL Forum

shel311 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 5:32 pm

Crowes wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 5:23 pm Mass unemployment due to automation is a for sure thing it's already written in stone a $15 minimum wage has little to do with that.

You don't think nearly doubling the minimum wage will have any effect whatsoever on whether those fast food restaurants will add more automated kiosks and less employees?

Those cities and states with a higher minimum wage have a higher cost of living. $15 in Nebraska for Iowa or anywhere else in the Midwest is asinine

My town has 665 people. You think working an entry level job here deserves $15 per hour?
You have to take into account the cost of living.
My taxes here on a $120,000 house with over an acre of land is $700 per year.
When I lived in Cleveland, my house cost $120,000, I had a 50' by 150' lot and my taxes were $2500 per year.

$15 minimum wage does not work everywhere.
That is $31,200 per year if you work full time hours (2080 hours per year avg). I am sorry, but even when I lived in Cleveland, you don't deserve $30k per year to flip a burger.
You want to make $30k+ per year, work your ass off and move your way up the ladder in whatever realm your job is in.

i just had a brain aneurysm.

And just like the other guys posting their struggles, I grew up in a tiny house. Not like today's tiny houses that and the hipsters are buying, I mean a tiny as living room, a tiny ass kitchen and 2 bedrooms. 1 for my parents, 1 for my sister and I till I was a sophomore in HS. Then we finally had 2 rooms added on and we got our own bedrooms.

We lived in poverty. A very small town that struggled big time when the coal and railroad industries moved out of them.
This area continues to struggle today due to those industries being gone.
You have a handful of farmers now making tons of money thanks to gas and oil (And good for them), but that is it.
The median income for a family here is $34,625.

Hate to break it to you guys but 82% of the population in the US lives in urban areas. So the whole cost of living argument in rural areas is a joke you bought from big business propaganda. It's from a time that doesn't exist in this country anymore. Come join today's world and not the 60s and 70s world you like to call on in your fond memories to hinder progress....

Crowes wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 5:56 am Hate to break it to you guys but 82% of the population in the US lives in urban areas. So the whole cost of living argument in rural areas is a joke you bought from big business propaganda. It's from a time that doesn't exist in this country anymore. Come join today's world and not the 60s and 70s world you like to call on in your fond memories to hinder progress....

price of tea in China?

Who cares if that much lives in an urban area. Cheyenne is not the same as Los Angeles, Rapid City is not the same as NYC.....

Cost of living should drive the minimum wage you idiot

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 7:21 am

Crowes wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 5:56 am Hate to break it to you guys but 82% of the population in the US lives in urban areas. So the whole cost of living argument in rural areas is a joke you bought from big business propaganda. It's from a time that doesn't exist in this country anymore. Come join today's world and not the 60s and 70s world you like to call on in your fond memories to hinder progress....

price of tea in China?

Who cares if that much lives in an urban area. Cheyenne is not the same as Los Angeles, Rapid City is not the same as NYC.....

Cost of living should drive the minimum wage you idiot

You are seriously a fool if you think 30k is anything but struggling for the basics in any urban area in this country.

Crowes wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 7:54 am

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 7:21 am

Crowes wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 5:56 am Hate to break it to you guys but 82% of the population in the US lives in urban areas. So the whole cost of living argument in rural areas is a joke you bought from big business propaganda. It's from a time that doesn't exist in this country anymore. Come join today's world and not the 60s and 70s world you like to call on in your fond memories to hinder progress....

price of tea in China?

Who cares if that much lives in an urban area. Cheyenne is not the same as Los Angeles, Rapid City is not the same as NYC.....

Cost of living should drive the minimum wage you idiot

You are seriously a fool if you think 30k is anything but struggling for the basics in any urban area in this country.

Have you been anywhere outside of your town?

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:07 am

Crowes wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 7:54 am

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 7:21 am

Crowes wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 5:56 am Hate to break it to you guys but 82% of the population in the US lives in urban areas. So the whole cost of living argument in rural areas is a joke you bought from big business propaganda. It's from a time that doesn't exist in this country anymore. Come join today's world and not the 60s and 70s world you like to call on in your fond memories to hinder progress....

price of tea in China?

Who cares if that much lives in an urban area. Cheyenne is not the same as Los Angeles, Rapid City is not the same as NYC.....

Cost of living should drive the minimum wage you idiot

You are seriously a fool if you think 30k is anything but struggling for the basics in any urban area in this country.

Have you been anywhere outside of your town?

Do you know the definition of anecdotal?

Crowes wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:15 am

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:07 am

Crowes wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 7:54 am

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 7:21 am

Crowes wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 5:56 am Hate to break it to you guys but 82% of the population in the US lives in urban areas. So the whole cost of living argument in rural areas is a joke you bought from big business propaganda. It's from a time that doesn't exist in this country anymore. Come join today's world and not the 60s and 70s world you like to call on in your fond memories to hinder progress....

price of tea in China?

Who cares if that much lives in an urban area. Cheyenne is not the same as Los Angeles, Rapid City is not the same as NYC.....

Cost of living should drive the minimum wage you idiot

You are seriously a fool if you think 30k is anything but struggling for the basics in any urban area in this country.

Have you been anywhere outside of your town?

Do you know the definition of anecdotal?

Do you know the meaning of Cost of Living?

And please tell me where I inserted my personal meaning over facts? Living in Rapid City, SD does not have the same COL as NYC or LA...FACTS

Duuuuude 30k is not living the high life or even a middle class life in Cheyenne or any other Midwest urban area you spout off.

You keep bringing up major metros as your counter argument could it be that maybe just maybe $15 is to low for those areas instead of to high for the majority of everywhere else???

big hugs to everyone

Crowes wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 6:04 pm

shel311 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 5:32 pm

Crowes wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 5:23 pm Mass unemployment due to automation is a for sure thing it's already written in stone a $15 minimum wage has little to do with that.

You don't think nearly doubling the minimum wage will have any effect whatsoever on whether those fast food restaurants will add more automated kiosks and less employees?

Universal basic income! Sooner we get it figured out the better.

There are cities that have a minimum wage that high and there's no difference in adding automation as oppossed to a city with a low minimum wage so unless they lied I dunno...

You do realize that the 1 off city doing it isn't seeing big jumps because the impacts are just being absorbed by surrounding areas and the rest of those companies regions/territories? I feel like I went through an explained the impacts of minimum wage increases about 3-5yrs ago. I spent a large part of my career working with this stuff and nearly everything that I predicted would happen ended up happening. Crowes, you're well out of your element here. It's very clear that you don't have the slightest idea about chain reaction of impacts beyond the immediate point "it's money to the people."

DRiccio21 wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:55 am big hugs to everyone

I've seen your darkness... you can't fool me anymore.

Crowes wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:46 am Duuuuude 30k is not living the high life or even a middle class life in Cheyenne or any other Midwest urban area you spout off.

You keep bringing up major metros as your counter argument could it be that maybe just maybe $15 is to low for those areas instead of to high for the majority of everywhere else???

Minimum wage isn't supposed to get you to the middle class. An education and hard work will get you there, but minimum wage isn't designed to allow people to live in the middle class.

Minimum wage should keep you above poverty level. States should pass their own law on what is best minimum wage for their state (they do this already) which is equal to or greater than the federal minimum wage and then cities/counties should pass their own law for a minimum wage that is equal or higher than the state level. That is how you adjust to the cost of living in your area. But a blanket $15 minimum wage is not the answer for most of the country. It only helps out workers in large cities where the cost of living is higher.

DRiccio21 wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:55 am big hugs to everyone

Hi Dave! Never thought we'd see you in here or the political thread. Hope all is well down in Miami

ReignOnU wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:57 am

Crowes wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 6:04 pm

shel311 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 5:32 pm

Crowes wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 5:23 pm Mass unemployment due to automation is a for sure thing it's already written in stone a $15 minimum wage has little to do with that.

You don't think nearly doubling the minimum wage will have any effect whatsoever on whether those fast food restaurants will add more automated kiosks and less employees?

Universal basic income! Sooner we get it figured out the better.

There are cities that have a minimum wage that high and there's no difference in adding automation as oppossed to a city with a low minimum wage so unless they lied I dunno...

You do realize that the 1 off city doing it isn't seeing big jumps because the impacts are just being absorbed by surrounding areas and the rest of those companies regions/territories? I feel like I went through an explained the impacts of minimum wage increases about 3-5yrs ago. I spent a large part of my career working with this stuff and nearly everything that I predicted would happen ended up happening. Crowes, you're well out of your element here. It's very clear that you don't have the slightest idea about chain reaction of impacts beyond the immediate point "it's money to the people."

Yes sir reigny-poo your rags to riches story plus that noble prize in economics award is the perfect Hallmark movie idea

You are a insignificant piss ant just like myself in the big scheme of things.

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 9:00 am

Crowes wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:46 am Duuuuude 30k is not living the high life or even a middle class life in Cheyenne or any other Midwest urban area you spout off.

You keep bringing up major metros as your counter argument could it be that maybe just maybe $15 is to low for those areas instead of to high for the majority of everywhere else???

Minimum wage isn't supposed to get you to the middle class. An education and hard work will get you there, but minimum wage isn't designed to allow people to live in the middle class.

Minimum wage should keep you above poverty level. States should pass their own law on what is best minimum wage for their state (they do this already) which is equal to or greater than the federal minimum wage and then cities/counties should pass their own law for a minimum wage that is equal or higher than the state level. That is how you adjust to the cost of living in your area. But a blanket $15 minimum wage is not the answer for most of the country. It only helps out workers in large cities where the cost of living is higher.

So all of this could have been avoided if you had just said you don't like big brother telling states what to do and nothing to do with cost of living and weather 30k is considered impoverished or not in your personal opinion or mine.

Crowes wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 5:56 am Hate to break it to you guys but 82% of the population in the US lives in urban areas. So the whole cost of living argument in rural areas is a joke you bought from big business propaganda. It's from a time that doesn't exist in this country anymore. Come join today's world and not the 60s and 70s world you like to call on in your fond memories to hinder progress....

Except... you don't have any idea what that 82% number that you're quote represents. The 82% is "urbanized area," which is the loosest definition of urban. To give you an idea of just how loose, below is a link to Cleveland and the surrounding area. The shaded colors show you the "urbanized area." Those areas are any section in which the population density meets a specific threshold, which isn't that large. None of what you're arguing holds any water using this as your source. As a point of reference, it was about 55% 100 years ago and 65% about 50 years ago. But it's not growing because of inner-city population density. In fact, it's the opposite. It's growing because suburban areas are expanding in density as people look to live just outside of the major cities. (again, see the map below that shows the urbanized areas well outside of the core city of Cleveland)

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/fi ... h_rec3.pdf

Crowes wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 9:10 am

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 9:00 am

Crowes wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:46 am Duuuuude 30k is not living the high life or even a middle class life in Cheyenne or any other Midwest urban area you spout off.

You keep bringing up major metros as your counter argument could it be that maybe just maybe $15 is to low for those areas instead of to high for the majority of everywhere else???

Minimum wage isn't supposed to get you to the middle class. An education and hard work will get you there, but minimum wage isn't designed to allow people to live in the middle class.

Minimum wage should keep you above poverty level. States should pass their own law on what is best minimum wage for their state (they do this already) which is equal to or greater than the federal minimum wage and then cities/counties should pass their own law for a minimum wage that is equal or higher than the state level. That is how you adjust to the cost of living in your area. But a blanket $15 minimum wage is not the answer for most of the country. It only helps out workers in large cities where the cost of living is higher.

So all of this could have been avoided if you had just said you don't like big brother telling states what to do and nothing to do with cost of living and weather 30k is considered impoverished or not in your personal opinion or mine.

Could have been avoided from you as well by not wanting the Federal Government to interfere with state business. But the beginning of this discussion was about how the $300 extra stimulus for unemployment is affecting jobs hiring workers. I read there are around 8M less jobs now than prior to the pandemic, and 4M less available workers seeking work.

If the fed government really wanted to help, they'd use that extra $300 for workers that have a job and help pay for child care since a lot of schools still aren't required to be 100% in person learning. But then the logical side of me says, "what did these parents do every summer from 2019 and before?" Unemployment before the pandemic was at a historic low right around 3%. I am positive one parent didn't quit their job every summer when their kids were out of school.