Occupy Wall Street

[DRiccio21]

what you are arguing is going to drive our country into far bigger issues than we have today. thats the point i'm trying to make... well, that and that everyone is given an opportunity to succeed.

your plan is 100% going to force out intelligent, innovative people. we live in a global economy now... i can just as easily move to Brazil as i can to Chicago (for the most part). if opportunities presented themselves, my family situation allowed it and i felt our country was moving away from the values that made us what we are, i absolutely would consider moving to a different country... do you not realize how ridiculous that is??? the United States should be the destination where people go to succeed and to create and to take chances, now people are considering alternatives... THATS THE PROBLEM and thats why revenues won't go up and thats why some of the next Apple, Google, Starbucks type companies will come from Brazil or China and not all of them will come from America anymore.

[brwnbear]

shift, im curious, did you know that the top 1% earn family income of $350,000 and not millions. That is alot of small business owners who hire a lot of people.

[Shiftdnb]

families who bring in a combined $350K. Those are the families that you think are causing the worlds problems and those are the people you want to pay for your misfortune.

I dont' know where you got that number from but I found this.

http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/income_rank/

type in 350k

Your $350,000 adjusted gross income (AGI) puts you in the top 5% of earners.

if opportunities presented themselves, my family situation allowed it and i felt our country was moving away from the values that made us what we are, i absolutely would consider moving to a different country... do you not realize how ridiculous that is??? the United States should be the destination where people go to succeed and to create and to take chances, now people are considering alternatives... THATS THE PROBLEM and thats why revenues won't go up and thats why some of the next Apple, Google, Starbucks type companies will come from Brazil or China and not all of them will come from America anymore.

If you move to a different country and want to keep your citizenship you have to pay taxes still. So go ahead and move out of the United States. You being gone, opens up a job for someone else, then they can make it. Getting rid of the Bush Tax cuts is not going to cause a mass exodus of rich people. What you are calling for is more of the same and that's just not working.

[DRiccio21]

me moving is not going to open up a job for someone else.

me moving is going to cut at least 5 jobs.

the fact that you don't realize that good talent moving away is bad is quite alarming. that'd be like saying ... 'eh, who cares if the NBA players go play in Europe or Asia forever, we'll just let the next level of college players take their place' and then assuming the NBA would be just as good if not better off because of it.

do you not realize if my boss achieved the same success in a different country that our country would be a worse place because of it? does that not register?

[brwnbear]

families who bring in a combined $350K. Those are the families that you think are causing the worlds problems and those are the people you want to pay for your misfortune.

I dont' know where you got that number from but I found this.

http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/income_rank/

type in 350k

Your $350,000 adjusted gross income (AGI) puts you in the top 5% of earners.

if opportunities presented themselves, my family situation allowed it and i felt our country was moving away from the values that made us what we are, i absolutely would consider moving to a different country... do you not realize how ridiculous that is??? the United States should be the destination where people go to succeed and to create and to take chances, now people are considering alternatives... THATS THE PROBLEM and thats why revenues won't go up and thats why some of the next Apple, Google, Starbucks type companies will come from Brazil or China and not all of them will come from America anymore.

If you move to a different country and want to keep your citizenship you have to pay taxes still. So go ahead and move out of the United States. You being gone, opens up a job for someone else, then they can make it. Getting rid of the Bush Tax cuts is not going to cause a mass exodus of rich people. What you are calling for is more of the same and that's just not working.

Shift the data is from the IRS. Its in the same article you provided. Yes, being in the top 1% also makes you part of the top 5%. It also makes you part of the top 20%, 50%, and 100%. You want to tax the top 1% income earners. Well according to the IRS (not some college student sleeping in a tent) that includes families with AGI of $350,000. Most of those pay taxes at the 33-35% tax rate and will see an increase of 4.9% starting next year.

Does this change your point of view or will you keep ignoring facts.

- Shift, moving outside the US would hurt tax revenue. The US gives you a credit for taxes paid in other countries. That is revenue that could be used here. If the top taxes rates are raised to 92% (1950, like someone here recommended) why would a millionaire pay 63% more in taxes to live here when Canada has top tax rates of 29%?

And having Google move to switzerland does not open up jobs here. Having Goldman Sachs move to Canada, does not open up jobs here. It takes them with.

[DRiccio21]

you're a fool brwnbear.

google moving to switzerland just opens up an opportunity for someone else to create a google here.

[Shiftdnb]

me moving is not going to open up a job for someone else.

me moving is going to cut at least 5 jobs.

the fact that you don't realize that good talent moving away is bad is quite alarming. that'd be like saying ... 'eh, who cares if the NBA players go play in Europe or Asia forever, we'll just let the next level of college players take their place' and then assuming the NBA would be just as good if not better off because of it.

do you not realize if my boss achieved the same success in a different country that our country would be a worse place because of it? does that not register?

Not to be a dick but your boss wouldn't have had the same success without the USA. You said your guy is big in Israel, right?

Your NBA reference confuses me because given time it would resemble the same thing it is now, am I not right? It would probably would be cheaper for families to attend games. Contracts wouldn't be astronomical.

Like I said if you want to move out of this country go right ahead. Again you would still be taxed.
http://www.taxmeless.com/page4.html

[DRiccio21]

Not to be a dick but your boss wouldn't have had the same success without the USA. You said your guy is big in Israel, right?

Your NBA reference confuses me because given time it would resemble the same thing it is now, am I not right? It would probably would be cheaper for families to attend games. Contracts wouldn't be astronomical.

Like I said if you want to move out of this country go right ahead. Again you would still be taxed.

no he wouldn't have succeeded without the US... but that was in a time where innovation was applauded and he could achieve... he constantly tells us how innovators have no reason to stay in our country, but i should listen to you over him?

are you saying the NBA wouldn't be harmed by having all of its best talent go overseas??? i mean, there is a major disconnect between you and I shift and to be honest, i almost think you're fucking with me. if the best talent goes overseas, the NBA crumbles because i'll start following the Chinese basketball league if thats where the best players are... just like i follow European soccer and not American.

[Shiftdnb]

What I'm saying is follow it than. To me all these things are happening and going to happen anyway. Corporations are going overseas already so what you're saying makes no difference to me, they've been doing it for years. They've got trillions of dollars overseas that they've dangled in the Governments faces saying just give us a tax break and we'll make it all good again, promise it won't be like that time.

Again, you go overseas to work and you still get taxed.

[brwnbear]

So, you still want to increase the tax rate on families earning more than $350,000, who will pay 39.4% starting in 2013.

[jsence2]

But Dave, you can't be serious....that would be like athletes going to states with high income taxes over states with no income taxes. WHy would anybody leave our country to avoid higher taxes???

[Shiftdnb]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCRnkamitVk[/youtube]

[DRiccio21]

you don't even know what you're arguing at this point.

i've been saying the exact shit that Rattigan said that whole time... the issues are in politics, the financial system is a fraud, our president is an idiot... what else do you want me to say?

i can promise you that Rattigan is pro-business and would be ripping apart your socialistic ideals if he were reading this thread. he wants to get rid of political corruption.

[brwnbear]

What I'm saying is follow it than. To me all these things are happening and going to happen anyway. Corporations are going overseas already so what you're saying makes no difference to me, they've been doing it for years. They've got trillions of dollars overseas that they've dangled in the Governments faces saying just give us a tax break and we'll make it all good again, promise it won't be like that time.

Again, you go overseas to work and you still get taxed.

Corporations dont have citizenship and you get a tax credit (you dont have to pay taxes twice) for taxes paid abroad.

Corporations have money overseas because their is profit to be made there. Over 50% of the income from the top 100 US companies comes from abroad. There are customers in Europe, China, Brazil, Japan. Ignoring them would be a dumb move. The US doesnt live in some protected buble that guarantees prosperity to those that reside within its borders. It is a part of a larger world, and those countries are not invested in making sure wealth continues to flow into the US. They are the both an opportunity and the competition. Making it more difficult for US companies to compete wont improve our economy. It will just make it easier for China to replace GE, Apple, GM, Ford, Pfizer, ect.

[GeorgesGoons]

STOP THE FUCKING BULLSHIT LIE BUSH STARTED IN AFGANSTAN. BEEFY

This is where you lose me Beefy, and if you think 9/11 was an inside job then all hope is lost with a lot of Americans. I typically agree with what you say because it's straight to the truth and no beating around a bush.

[autiger730]

Shift = Glass Joe

[Crowes]

Did we really need 14 pages to show that there is a wide gap between the opinions of the people that have and the people that have not?

[Shiftdnb]

Shift = Glass Joe

Fuck you buddy, what did you bring to the table?

[autiger730]

Shift = Glass Joe

Fuck you buddy, what did you bring to the table?

I've only been keeping up with this the last few pages. Dave and brwnbear covered pretty much anything I could have brought and then some. You really lost this argument like two or three pages ago anyway.

[Shiftdnb]

Shift = Glass Joe

Fuck you buddy, what did you bring to the table?

I've only been keeping up with this the last few pages. Dave and brwnbear covered pretty much anything I could have brought and then some. You really lost this argument like two or three pages ago anyway.

I haven't lost any argument. It's all your opinion. I'll keep mine the way it is. I may not have been the best person to be on my side of the debate but all you guys are calling for is more of the same. Don't see how that somehow wins the argument when the countries is in the shape that it's in. Just saying.