NDL Forum

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:41 pm**

sixpackdan101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:37 pm If you call the BLM gatherings (for lack of a better term) over the summer ‘riots’ because of the actions of a few, but call the Capitol gathering a ‘protest’, you are posturing. If you call the BLM gatherings ‘protests’ and the Capitol gathering a ‘riot’, then you are posturing. Assign actions and responsibility to individuals and stop associating your identity and the identity of others to political parties.

There were protests at both "events" but rioters drowned out the lawful protesting and that is all each side looks at when looking at the other sides "riot"

Are we allowed to say, "there were good people on both sides?" Yes, it was a blatant attempt at a joke using trump's words

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:42 pm**

sixpackdan101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:37 pm If you call the BLM gatherings (for lack of a better term) over the summer ‘riots’ because of the actions of a few, but call the Capitol gathering a ‘protest’, you are posturing. If you call the BLM gatherings ‘protests’ and the Capitol gathering a ‘riot’, then you are posturing. Assign actions and responsibility to individuals and stop associating your identity and the identity of others to political parties.

Me, Dan and Jheinz are going to start our own political party and get everyone to hold hands across America and start the healing process!!!

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:16 pm**

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:41 pm
sixpackdan101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:37 pm If you call the BLM gatherings (for lack of a better term) over the summer ‘riots’ because of the actions of a few, but call the Capitol gathering a ‘protest’, you are posturing. If you call the BLM gatherings ‘protests’ and the Capitol gathering a ‘riot’, then you are posturing. Assign actions and responsibility to individuals and stop associating your identity and the identity of others to political parties.
There were protests at both "events" but rioters drowned out the lawful protesting and that is all each side looks at when looking at the other sides "riot"

Are we allowed to say, "there were good people on both sides?" Yes, it was a blatant attempt at a joke using trump's words

There is a distinct difference between those on Wednesday who rioted to riot (unprovoked and unabated by police), and people at BLM protests who fought back when provoked by police. I know that not all of the looting, burning, etc that happened this summer falls into that category, but all got lumped together. That said, the two things being protested by the peaceful folks should not, in any way, be compared to one another. One was demanding justice and equal rights; the other was trying to overthrow a legal election.

Looters on both sides should be prosecuted--and I believe President Donald Trump tweeted a few months ago that looting or damaging government property came with a minimum 10 year federal prison sentence. We shall see if that's still the case. As for Wednesday, anybody who stormed the property should be arrested and charged, and the local and state lawmakers (so far, six of them have been identified) who traveled across interstate lines to participate should be removed from their respective offices, per federal law.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:20 pm**

Imagine being a country like China and seeing how easy yesterday looked.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:22 pm**

"The police are not our enemy, unless they CHOOSE to be".

This isn't a protest.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:23 pm**

jsence2 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:16 pm
GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:41 pm
sixpackdan101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:37 pm If you call the BLM gatherings (for lack of a better term) over the summer ‘riots’ because of the actions of a few, but call the Capitol gathering a ‘protest’, you are posturing. If you call the BLM gatherings ‘protests’ and the Capitol gathering a ‘riot’, then you are posturing. Assign actions and responsibility to individuals and stop associating your identity and the identity of others to political parties.
There were protests at both "events" but rioters drowned out the lawful protesting and that is all each side looks at when looking at the other sides "riot"

Are we allowed to say, "there were good people on both sides?" Yes, it was a blatant attempt at a joke using trump's words
There is a distinct difference between those on Wednesday who rioted to riot (unprovoked and unabated by police), and people at BLM protests who fought back when provoked by police.

C'mon now, you can't be that stupid. But this post shows you actually are. And I hate to just come out and say bad things about someone. There were plenty of people there wednesday that protested, there was a group that rioted. There were plenty of people that protested during teh summer, but some chose to riot and loot. IT"S THE SAME FUCKING THING! Open your damn eyes

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:25 pm**

You know what is sad? I honestly thing Crowes has more common sense than you do here. And that is saying a lot coming from me, as I wholeheartedly despise crowes antifa stance on most things politics.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:54 pm**

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:23 pm
jsence2 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:16 pm
GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:41 pm
sixpackdan101 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:37 pm If you call the BLM gatherings (for lack of a better term) over the summer ‘riots’ because of the actions of a few, but call the Capitol gathering a ‘protest’, you are posturing. If you call the BLM gatherings ‘protests’ and the Capitol gathering a ‘riot’, then you are posturing. Assign actions and responsibility to individuals and stop associating your identity and the identity of others to political parties.
There were protests at both "events" but rioters drowned out the lawful protesting and that is all each side looks at when looking at the other sides "riot"

Are we allowed to say, "there were good people on both sides?" Yes, it was a blatant attempt at a joke using trump's words
There is a distinct difference between those on Wednesday who rioted to riot (unprovoked and unabated by police), and people at BLM protests who fought back when provoked by police.
C'mon now, you can't be that stupid. But this post shows you actually are. And I hate to just come out and say bad things about someone. There were plenty of people there wednesday that protested, there was a group that rioted. There were plenty of people that protested during teh summer, but some chose to riot and loot. IT"S THE SAME FUCKING THING! Open your damn eyes

Protesting police violence, people being killed, and racism, and being attacked by police, IS NOT THE SAME FUCKING THING as ultra right-wing butthurt snowflakestrying to claim a fair election was "stolen" and storming the Capitol building while police fucking took selfies with them!!!

If you are honestly fucking trying to claim they are the same thing, then I truly feel sorry for you.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:02 pm**

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:25 pm You know what is sad? I honestly thing Crowes has more common sense than you do here. And that is saying a lot coming from me, as I wholeheartedly despise crowes antifa stance on most things politics.

You're the one who is trying to compare people looting stores and breaking windows, with people trying to storm a fucking government building in an attempt to overthrow a fucking election. I'm very happy to be on the same side as Crowes, because history is going to have a clear view of which side was in the wrong.

In the last 60 hours alone, alt-right Trumpkins have:

Stormed the Capitol building and beat an officer to death with a fire extinguisher (Thin Blue Line tho!)
Attacked and beat up a black woman in LA
Stormed the grounds of the Washington Governor's mansion
Brought a guillotine to a protest at the Arizona Capitol
Called in a bomb threat to the Michigan Capitol building

But sure, "both sides". You can't simply denounce the actions of these nutjobs without trying to "but anteefuh, but BLM, both sides". It says a lot. I'm out.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:08 pm**

It is the same thing, rioting and looting on either side is wrong. That is why your dumb ass comment holds zero relevance. You are confirming the right for doing the same thing because of the reason they did it. I am confirming both

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:09 pm**

jsence2 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:02 pm
GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:25 pm You know what is sad? I honestly thing Crowes has more common sense than you do here. And that is saying a lot coming from me, as I wholeheartedly despise crowes antifa stance on most things politics.
You're the one who is trying to compare people looting stores and breaking windows, with people trying to storm a fucking government building in an attempt to overthrow a fucking election. I'm very happy to be on the same side as Crowes, because history is going to have a clear view of which side was in the wrong.

In the last 60 hours alone, alt-right Trumpkins have:

Stormed the Capitol building and beat an officer to death with a fire extinguisher (Thin Blue Line tho!)
Attacked and beat up a black woman in LA
Stormed the grounds of the Washington Governor's mansion
Brought a guillotine to a protest at the Arizona Capitol
Called in a bomb threat to the Michigan Capitol building

But sure, "both sides". You can't simply denounce the actions of these nutjobs without trying to "but anteefuh, but BLM, both sides". It says a lot. I'm out.

Reading comprehension much. I've said they should throw the book at them when they were still in the capital you dumbass. You are justifying the looting and riots because it was for police brutality.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:17 pm**

Does anyone really think Trump had the election stolen from him on the scale he is claiming?

If so please explain why him and his associates can't produce anything of substance for a court?

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:39 pm**

Crowes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:17 pm Does anyone really think Trump had the election stolen from him on the scale he is claiming?

If so please explain why him and his associates can't produce anything of substance for a court?

Yes, there are people who truly believe it....because Donald Trump said it.

Donald Trump has spent his entire life lying and denying. He has never failed at anything, he's the best ever, he's the best businessman, he's never lost.

He hasn't said these things because they're true, they're all lies. But he doesn't say them to lie, he truly believes them.

For him, losing isn't an option. It isn't feasible. He had to have been cheated of the election. And his most loyal, brainwashed supporters simply believe anything he says and anything to the contrary is "fake news". It's cult of personality and it's sad to see. It's also really, really dangerous.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:55 pm**

Crowes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:17 pm Does anyone really think Trump had the election stolen from him on the scale he is claiming?

If so please explain why him and his associates can't produce anything of substance for a court?

No, I don't think there was widespread fraud. The problem lies with how the rules changed for voting, it's supposed to go thru legislation branch not executive and judicial like it did for many states. That's the problem

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:41 pm**

Crowes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:17 pm Does anyone really think Trump had the election stolen from him on the scale he is claiming?

If so please explain why him and his associates can't produce anything of substance for a court?

I'll have to come back through later this weekend to catch up... but saw this and find it interesting...

My gut says no, he didn't. My head actually says maybe.

What he's said, I pay next to no attention to. I didn't go into detail on many of the cases, but the few I looked at, I felt like some were dismissed pretty quickly.

But that isn't really what has me saying it's possible either. I've seen some independent studies from people with pretty credible track records in terms of data and security, and they make really strong cases. It's not evidence per se, but it's enough to make someone that works with data for a living question things. A lot of what they are saying from a conceptual and math standpoint is really on point.

Then there's election night. I kick myself every time I think about it, because I didn't save my file, which is something I'm OCD about. I was up well into the morning hours and the last thing I did before bed was pull information into a spreadsheet that had PA, MI, WI, AZ and GA, with % of votes counted by county and current vote totals of those counties. I made it, because I wanted to go do bed with at least a reasonable understanding what I was going to wake up to the next morning. It was mathematically impossible to Biden to win PA, he needed 100% of Milwaukee County and over 90% of the other counties to get WI and it was over 65% for GA's remaining areas, but it had a heavy Atlanta area influence, MI was nearly a lock, which surprised me and AZ was within reach, depending on Maricopa coming in higher than trend (I think it was actually blue when I looked). But when I went to bed, it was all but a lock. When I woke up, not only was WI and PA trending gone, I believe the news was that MI was Biden and GA was now a lock for Trump... which threw me, because I had those 2 the other way. I've probably still got the group texts that were flying around that morning discussing it with some other guys that work in tech/finance, 1 of which said he had the same general info.

That whole scenario sticks with me. Had I not personally done the math at that level, I likely wouldn't think this. But I at least triple checked it. That's why I don't fully dismiss it all.

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:51 pm**

ReignOnU wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:40 pm I've been crazy busy with the home purchase, house prep, showing, negotiations, etc... so I'm pretty out of the loop today.

PA ended up being a pain in the ass like I thought. That one seemed pretty obvious. IDK what happened in Wisconsin/Michigan today, but I ran numbers late last night and it was highly improbable that those 2 flipped to Biden. So either the site I pulled county level info from was trash or something incredible happened.

Random thought I had during discussion with some friends in a group text...

Will this be a hidden victory for republicans if Biden wins? Hear me out...

If Trump wins, it's 4 more years of Russia, Tax Returns, Orange Man Bad, etc. Then in 2024, they are going to have a powerhouse candidate like Michelle Obama that would potentially roll to a big win and even promote that blue wave with huge voter turn out.

If Biden wins, let me give 2 scenarios... First, he's propped up like Bernie Lomax for 4 years. Meanwhile, goofiness runs wild in the House. Whatever happens with the 2nd surge of COVID gets pinned on him. He's not really reelectable and I don't see him having a powerhouse run of 4 years, with the first 2 having a Rep senate. If he messes up in the first 2yrs, he could actually lose some senate seats and really set it up for a big Rep 2024.

Second option, which I think is most likely... He's out in 2yrs. Kamala is the president at the end of the term. In the first 2yrs, it's still mostly the same as above. Kamala has a more liberal record. There's a risk that in 2yrs the senate flips. She could do some serious damage. That'll really turn up the republican base though. I also think you'd start seeing moderates flip, as long as Trump isn't back in 2024. Kamala runs for reelection, she's a shitty candidate and someone like Haley steps up on the Rep side... it actually could be a huge shift.

The other thing to keep an eye on is how remote work starts to impact the cities and suburbs. I don't think we see this impact as much before '24, but further down the line, I really wonder how that plays out. Do the college educated white liberals flee the big cities... spread out in the midwest, etc? Does that mean that more midwest states turn blue or does it mean that those blues coming out of big cities become victims of red areas with big leads, washing out their votes in the electoral college. That's a really complex situation that I think we'll start hearing about in the future.

This is what I posted the day after the election.

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:10 am**

PA happened the way it did because the Republican legislature passed a law to prevent counting early votes until the polls closed. This caused the "Trump is way ahead" scenario, which is what they wanted and what news outlets advised would happen.

Even if Trump wins PA, he loses the election.

And as I and others have stated a million times: how can you think the DNC would somehow rig and steal an election, and not take the Senate?! And lose multiple House seats?

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:16 am**

Between May 29th and June 7th, a total of 21 officers were injured during BLM protests. In 1 day during the Capitol siege, a total of 61 officers were injured and 1 killed.

On June 1st alone, 316 BLM protestors were arrested for unrest related events. During the Capitol siege, a total of 61 protestors were arrested for unrest related events.

I'm no conspiracy but you'd have a hard time telling me those numbers are real without some kind of fuckery going on behind the scenes a couple of days ago.

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:17 am**

Shel, don't come in here with facts.

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:44 am**

jsence2 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:10 am PA happened the way it did because the Republican legislature passed a law to prevent counting early votes until the polls closed. This caused the "Trump is way ahead" scenario, which is what they wanted and what news outlets advised would happen.

Even if Trump wins PA, he loses the election.

And as I and others have stated a million times: how can you think the DNC would somehow rig and steal an election, and not take the Senate?! And lose multiple House seats?

Estimated mail-in votes were included. I spoke about those in posts leading into the election. I said way ahead of time that PA was in for some BS.

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