NFL Thread

[nick]

i asked Dak for the math because we used to deal with PSI a lot in fire protection, and ive forgotten the formulas and was hoping his explanation would remind me of one... nope..

[jsence2]

Well then, let's find out how much the Indy balls weighed before going outside, and how much they weighed outside. That would be a great control experiment.

[dakshdar]

are you taking into account that the balls were more than likely pumped in a locker room, and brought outside to a colder temp?

Ummmm...

I assumed the balls were filled/checked indoors and then later checked outdoors (which is where the discrepancy would have been discovered, presumably). That was the entire point of the calculation determining the change in pressure due to the change in temperature.

Guess I lost you somewhere.

well some scientist from Boston had this to say

“One complication with the pressure units that we usually use, in this case PSI (Pressure per Square Inch) is that we are measuring the pressure above the atmospheric pressure,” Schmaltz said. “Air at a fixed volume- and I assume the size of a football stays pretty much the same whether it has a PSI of 13 or 11- if the size stays the same, and you change the temperature of the air, the pressure inside the football changes as well.”

The key question, as outlined by Schmaltz, is where the balls were tested prior to the game.If the balls were tested indoors, where the temperature was likely above the 50 degree temperature outdoors Sunday, then the pressure inside the ball would drop once the ball is moved outdoors and begins to cool off.

“If they had inflated the balls inside the building and put it to the minimum amount, and then brought it outside to temperatures that were about 30 degrees lower, that would drop the PSI by between 1 and 2,” Schmaltz explained.

According to Schmaltz, once the temperature of the air inside the ball drops to the temperature of the air outside the ball, the PSI would be changed. Schmaltz estimated that it would take no more than 30 minutes for the temperature of the air inside the ball to acclimate to the temperature of the air outside.

“After the game, if you take the ball inside to a commissioner’s office or another warm place, the air in the ball would warm up again and the PSI would go back up,” said Schmaltz.



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so basically what i said til Dak came in with some math

Right. The equation is a simpler version of the ideal gas law, pv=nrt. In our case we're only interested in p (pressure) and t (temperature) as the other values are not changing.

P1/T1 = P2/T2 is the relationship we examine. We know the two pressures, it's 10.5 PSI (or 25.2 PSI absolute when you include the atmospheric pressure) at the cold temp of 283.15 K (50 F) and the (at minimum) 12.5 PSI (or 27.2 PSI absolute) at the presumably warm temp room the balls were filled in.

You have to use absolute pressure and absolute temperature (which is why it was done in kelvin) or the answer doesn't come out right.

The more interesting calcs pop up if they happened to fill the balls to 13 or 13.5 PSI initially. The temp of the room where they were filled would have to jump significantly to about 317 K or ~111 F. Maybe they fill them in a sauna?

[nick]

are you taking into account that the balls were more than likely pumped in a locker room, and brought outside to a colder temp?

Ummmm...

I assumed the balls were filled/checked indoors and then later checked outdoors (which is where the discrepancy would have been discovered, presumably). That was the entire point of the calculation determining the change in pressure due to the change in temperature.

Guess I lost you somewhere.

well some scientist from Boston had this to say

“One complication with the pressure units that we usually use, in this case PSI (Pressure per Square Inch) is that we are measuring the pressure above the atmospheric pressure,” Schmaltz said. “Air at a fixed volume- and I assume the size of a football stays pretty much the same whether it has a PSI of 13 or 11- if the size stays the same, and you change the temperature of the air, the pressure inside the football changes as well.”

The key question, as outlined by Schmaltz, is where the balls were tested prior to the game.If the balls were tested indoors, where the temperature was likely above the 50 degree temperature outdoors Sunday, then the pressure inside the ball would drop once the ball is moved outdoors and begins to cool off.

“If they had inflated the balls inside the building and put it to the minimum amount, and then brought it outside to temperatures that were about 30 degrees lower, that would drop the PSI by between 1 and 2,” Schmaltz explained.

According to Schmaltz, once the temperature of the air inside the ball drops to the temperature of the air outside the ball, the PSI would be changed. Schmaltz estimated that it would take no more than 30 minutes for the temperature of the air inside the ball to acclimate to the temperature of the air outside.

“After the game, if you take the ball inside to a commissioner’s office or another warm place, the air in the ball would warm up again and the PSI would go back up,” said Schmaltz.



---------------

so basically what i said til Dak came in with some math

Right. The equation is a simpler version of the ideal gas law, pv=nrt. In our case we're only interested in p (pressure) and t (temperature) as the other values are not changing.

P1/T1 = P2/T2 is the relationship we examine. We know the two pressures, it's 10.5 PSI (or 25.2 PSI absolute when you include the atmospheric pressure) at the cold temp of 283.15 K (50 F) and the (at minimum) 12.5 PSI (or 27.2 PSI absolute) at the presumably warm temp room the balls were filled in.

You have to use absolute pressure and absolute temperature (which is why it was done in kelvin) or the answer doesn't come out right.

The more interesting calcs pop up if they happened to fill the balls to 13 or 13.5 PSI initially. The temp of the room where they were filled would have to jump significantly to about 317 K or ~111 F. Maybe they fill them in a sauna?

hey man the scientist said it not me.

[dakshdar]

One simple fix for the NFL is that all balls should be tested outside 2 hours before kick-off (if they're serious about this). Unless you get a crazy weather change, it helps eliminate one main variable.

[shel311]

One simple fix for the NFL is that all balls should be tested outside 2 hours before kick-off (if they're serious about this). Unless you get a crazy weather change, it helps eliminate one main variable.

Or have a NFL official type person be in charge of the footballs, not these Seeit types!!!

But seriously, don't have guys employed by teams in charge, have an NFL guy. Problem solved.

But that won't happen, the NFL is too worried about Lynch wearing gold cleats!!!!

[cougnix]

One simple fix for the NFL is that all balls should be tested outside 2 hours before kick-off (if they're serious about this). Unless you get a crazy weather change, it helps eliminate one main variable.

Or have a NFL official type person be in charge of the footballs, not these Seeit types!!!

But seriously, don't have guys employed by teams in charge, have an NFL guy. Problem solved.

But that won't happen, the NFL is too worried about Lynch wearing gold cleats!!!!

How dumb was that? If he played with them, the first play he was a part of he would have gotten a flag, the second he would have been ejected. And on top of that, he is now getting fined every time he grabs his crotch.

[nick]

One simple fix for the NFL is that all balls should be tested outside 2 hours before kick-off (if they're serious about this). Unless you get a crazy weather change, it helps eliminate one main variable.

Or have a NFL official type person be in charge of the footballs, not these Seeit types!!!

But seriously, don't have guys employed by teams in charge, have an NFL guy. Problem solved.

But that won't happen, the NFL is too worried about Lynch wearing gold cleats!!!!

While its stupid, can you go to work with gold cleats on? or a random tshirt. probably not. Its a multi billion dollar business. If Lynch doesnt like them saying he cant wear gold shoes, he can give all the millions back he got from playing a sport, and go work a 9-5. Based on how retarded he sounds, I can only imagine what job he would get if he wasnt blessed with athletic ability.

[shel311]

If he played with them, the first play he was a part of he would have gotten a flag, the second he would have been ejected

I'm wondering if that's one of those rules the NFL made up on the fly.

[shel311]

While its stupid, can you go to work with gold cleats on? or a random tshirt. probably not.

There were Packers players in that same game with bright yellow cleats on, it's really not THAT much different.

But I do wanna wear my Auburn hat every other casual Friday like Pino suggested!!!

[Seeitsaveit13]

If he played with them, the first play he was a part of he would have gotten a flag, the second he would have been ejected

I'm wondering if that's one of those rules the NFL made up on the fly.

Nah it's there. They technically can flag people for no knee/thigh pads and then eject them along te same timeline. It's all based on number of offenses and previous fines.

I used to cringe when the uniform inspector would give us the list of guys ready to be fined and when we'd warn them they'd go "oh I'll just take the fine". The smallest one was 5k... Fuck it. Wear the right shoes and give me the 5k you don't want. Fuck sake!

[cougnix]

If he played with them, the first play he was a part of he would have gotten a flag, the second he would have been ejected

I'm wondering if that's one of those rules the NFL made up on the fly.

Probably. He wore cleats that still had gold bottoms. They didn't say anything about that. It was just the tops that were team colors.

And to answer the bright yellow it's only because that is the packers color, Seattle obviously has no gold in their uniform and are only allowed to wear pink as a different color other than blue or green

[Whittness10]

One simple fix for the NFL is that all balls should be tested outside 2 hours before kick-off (if they're serious about this). Unless you get a crazy weather change, it helps eliminate one main variable.

Or have a NFL official type person be in charge of the footballs, not these Seeit types!!!

But seriously, don't have guys employed by teams in charge, have an NFL guy. Problem solved.

But that won't happen, the NFL is too worried about Lynch wearing gold cleats!!!!

How dumb was that? If he played with them, the first play he was a part of he would have gotten a flag, the second he would have been ejected. And on top of that, he is now getting fined every time he grabs his crotch.

Meanwhile, baseball players grab and adjust themselves after every pitch.

[cougnix]

If he played with them, the first play he was a part of he would have gotten a flag, the second he would have been ejected

I'm wondering if that's one of those rules the NFL made up on the fly.

Nah it's there. They technically can flag people for no knee/thigh pads and then eject them along te same timeline. It's all based on number of offenses and previous fines.

I used to cringe when the uniform inspector would give us the list of guys ready to be fined and when we'd warn them they'd go "oh I'll just take the fine". The smallest one was 5k... Fuck it. Wear the right shoes and give me the 5k you don't want. Fuck sake!

I was wondering about that pad thing. I don't understand why they don't wear the pads, then complain they have a knee, thigh or hip soreness...lol

[shel311]

then complain they have a knee, thigh or hip soreness...lol

I don't think I ever hear NFL players complaining about injuries, they play through some ridiculous things.

[packsyd2284]

Anyone that has played football in here knows thigh and knee pads don't do shit when you get hit and they slow you down........

[texasfan4444]

While its stupid, can you go to work with gold cleats on? or a random tshirt. probably not.

There were Packers players in that same game with bright yellow cleats on, it's really not THAT much different.

But I do wanna wear my Auburn hat every other casual Friday like Pino suggested!!!

Short of Dak Science lessons, this is the best thing about this thread since last sunday.

[OracleHCR]

If Lynch doesnt like them saying he cant wear gold shoes, he can give all the millions back he got from playing a sport, and go work a 9-5. Based on how retarded he sounds, I can only imagine what job he would get if he wasnt blessed with athletic ability.

He graduated from Stanford. He is a lot smarter than he sounds in his interviews.

[packsyd2284]

If Lynch doesnt like them saying he cant wear gold shoes, he can give all the millions back he got from playing a sport, and go work a 9-5. Based on how retarded he sounds, I can only imagine what job he would get if he wasnt blessed with athletic ability.

He graduated from Stanford. He is a lot smarter than he sounds in his interviews.

he went to Cal.

Still a good school but it's not Stanford. DeSean Jackson went to Cal.........

[Seeitsaveit13]

If he played with them, the first play he was a part of he would have gotten a flag, the second he would have been ejected

I'm wondering if that's one of those rules the NFL made up on the fly.

Nah it's there. They technically can flag people for no knee/thigh pads and then eject them along te same timeline. It's all based on number of offenses and previous fines.

I used to cringe when the uniform inspector would give us the list of guys ready to be fined and when we'd warn them they'd go "oh I'll just take the fine". The smallest one was 5k... Fuck it. Wear the right shoes and give me the 5k you don't want. Fuck sake!

I was wondering about that pad thing. I don't understand why they don't wear the pads, then complain they have a knee, thigh or hip soreness...lol

Yea they put that one into effect my 2nd year. New CBA rule or something