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thats the message everyone wants to hear and its true.

the problem is only Bernie really sends that message and bernie's solutions are counter productive to the issues. but at least he sends the message.

there isn't a person out there, Trump isn't it, who explains that cleaning up corrupt capitalism is the solution and cleaning up corrupt political contributions is the solution.

capitalism is the only answer, what we have today isn't capitalism... its chrony capitalism which is the exact opposite of capitalism.

That was outstanding and the dude in the glasses was cracking me up when they kept cutting to him and he was frozen faced.

Sounds like he has a lot of the views of say a Bernie Sanders. But thats none of my business.

DRiccio21 wrote: the problem is only Bernie really sends that message and bernie's solutions are counter productive to the issues.

Part of the problem right here folks. Let's stay steadfast and doing things we have done the last couple decades making the same mistakes over and over versus bringing in someone that has these views and stands by them every single step of his campaign.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

Cnasty wrote:

DRiccio21 wrote: the problem is only Bernie really sends that message and bernie's solutions are counter productive to the issues.

Part of the problem right here folks. Let's stay steadfast and doing things we have done the last couple decades making the same mistakes over and over versus bringing in someone that has these views and stands by them every single step of his campaign.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

who on earth said i want things to stay the same? i just said that the system is broken and i've always said that.
i'm not here to argue with you.

everything Bernie says is accurate other than when he openly just tries to make people seem like successful people are the devil. the campaign system is broke, there is corruption in our banking system and capitalism is being polluted. but if you are trying to debate that socialism and a bigger gov't is the solution to these issues, we can just agree to disagree and i can point to about 30 nations who have been down this road before us and tried similar quasi socialist plans that crippled their growth and that they never recovered from. History repeats itseslf over and over and i know my history of the economics of growth.

your solution to a corrupt gov't is to make it bigger and give them more power. if i was willing to go down that road and say 'i trust bernie won't fuck up all the excess taxes and won't waste it and will be great with more power' then what happens 4 or 8 years down the road when a new person comes into office with less than perfect ideals and has the most power that the gov't has ever had?

it's already happened with Obama. Obama has plans that are socialistic in nature. the only people who benefit from them are the top 1%. its a myth if you believe somehow Bernie is going to get the billionaires to just start writing checks and paying bigger taxes.... its simply not how it works. they'll continue to move money off shore as they always do and find other tax havens. then the programs that will need to be funded come from the middle class which makes us suffer and in the end continues to lower the bar while our taxes go up and we have less money to use to risk/speculate and change our own path to success. It's what happens anytime socialism steps into place. there is popular phrase that the only people who support socialism are those who are too young to remember why their ancestors tried to escape from it in the first place

the only solution is to fix capitalism and take corruption out of the equation. its not quite as simple as it sounds tho, obviously

Of course it isn't as simple as it sounds but would you rather stay with the same process and candidates that are regurgitating the same shit that has been spewed the last couple decades or actually support someone with the gusto to speak up in this political climate?

I am not arguing with you or saying you are voting one way or another, but are you stating you are abstaining from voting versus selecting someone that actually speaks for the change? If so, I am not here to sway anything you believe in or say but I am tired of the comments of "Bernie is the only that actually stands by what he says and shows the differences that can be made with his beliefs, but he can't be realistically chosen..blah blah blah"

Not turning this very well leveled thread into a political debate at all, just very frustrating to see what occurs in these campaigns and voting processes as Shel has pointed out.

Which brings me to another discussion point after my american flag wearing underwear rant above.

When you guys vote, what do you vote for or how? Is it strictly party lines? Do you actually believe the candidate you are voting for will meet the needs of you as a citizen? Just curious what goes through your personal thought process. I don't need to know who you are voting for.

God's honest truth. The reason people are flocking to Trump can be heard in that video clip. He isn't a Republican or a democrat. He is somewhere in the middle.

I've always thought of myself as a diehard republican but after going to isidewith.com I am a little more of a moderate republican. I have zero issues with gay marriage. If someone of the same sex makes that person happier, thus making them a more productive member in society who am I to say they shouldn't get married. I agree with planned parenthood, except the abortion part. But I think abortion should only happen in cases of incest, rape, life of mom. All views not very popular with the diehard conservative republicans.

Cnasty wrote:Which brings me to another discussion point after my american flag wearing underwear rant above.

When you guys vote, what do you vote for or how? Is it strictly party lines? Do you actually believe the candidate you are voting for will meet the needs of you as a citizen? Just curious what goes through your personal thought process. I don't need to know who you are voting for.

so this will be the first presidential election I'll be voting in (didn't when I was 18, wasn't allowed when I was 22,26). I live in Louisiana so it doesn't really matter but I will likely vote for the democratic nomination unless something strange happens in the republican side. I don't like Cruz at all and think Trump is a bit of a nut job. I don't have an opinion on Rubio one way or another. VP candidates will make it interesting too.

Our country has its issues but every country does. I can't imagine we are that much worse off/more corrupt then other western countries.

i am and will always be against socialistic ideals.

they don't work and have ramifications that effect growth for generations to come. just like Obama's have and the ridiculous division of wealth we have today with more people on food stamps and more money in the pockets of the top 1% than ever before. That is the direct effect of trying to 'tweak' capitalism. the rich will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER be forced out of their money. So when you hear Bernie say 'the top 1% will pay!!!!' its all nonsense. the reality is the people who make between 60k and say 1mil will be the ones paying.

you need to have success and failure in anything to grow. failure is what breeds growth. people need to be rewarded for taking risks as thats what creates innovation. innovation/hard work creates the opportunity for people from low class to work their way up thru the the system and create wealth. if you de-incentivize risk taking you retard growth. i want to live in a world with winners and losers and a world where someone who was in my shoes 20 years ago who was told 'the world is out to get you' and 'people like us aren't supposed to make money' like my dad used to tell me (great guy, don't mean to bash him but those messages always stuck with me) doesn't believe that nonsense.

so as much as i love Bernie's thoughts about shit being corrupt, i would never support him because i think his solutions are counter productive and dangerous.

we can all agree the starting center on the basketball is the problem, but that doesn't mean i want to give the coach my vote if his solution is to bring in a 5'5 kid to replace the current center. hopefully that ridiculous analogy can sort of explain my views.

and you're not hurting my feelings so you don't sweat your differing opinion. i get why people love Bernie, part of me does too. the part of me that hates him is the part that tries to paint successful people as a problem. corruption is the problem.

Cnasty wrote:Which brings me to another discussion point after my american flag wearing underwear rant above.

When you guys vote, what do you vote for or how? Is it strictly party lines? Do you actually believe the candidate you are voting for will meet the needs of you as a citizen? Just curious what goes through your personal thought process. I don't need to know who you are voting for.

i solely vote for people that will:

a) keep the basic principles of capitalism in tact
b) promote equality (which is one of my biggest beefs with alot of republicans)

because i believe with those 2 things anyone can be successful. i certainly don't vote for my own benefit, i know i'll be fine regardless, i vote because i believe in optimism and idealistic things and i want the future generations to believe that way too.

Uuaww wrote:I can't imagine we are that much worse off/more corrupt then other western countries.

we aren't at all.

but we have access to information now that allows to see how shit has always worked and now the masses are pissed to see how corrupt it is.

the only issue we have is we're getting old in our lifecycle as a power. there are demographic and idealistic things that change the longer a society remains in power. the separation of the success can often lead to Socialism arising since the lower classes start to feel cheated and the upper classes get more. its happened in Europe and it happened in Japan. its completely natural part of the cycle. our nations lifecycle has probably outlasted its expiration because we use our military to keep us at the top.

but younger and hungrier nations will come thru over the next 50 years like China already has and take a leap ahead of us in growth. the thing that keeps us on top is capitalism and freedom. those nations aren't free so they don't get the same rise in middle class like we did 100+ years ago. But nations like India and China are certainly on their way to passing us simply thru natural growth cylces.

Cnasty wrote:Which brings me to another discussion point after my american flag wearing underwear rant above.

When you guys vote, what do you vote for or how? Is it strictly party lines? Do you actually believe the candidate you are voting for will meet the needs of you as a citizen? Just curious what goes through your personal thought process. I don't need to know who you are voting for.

I have never voted. I always had an internal struggle with voting for my boss.

This year I will vote based on who I think will keep America afloat and not sink her more into debt with social programs that have proven they don't work. We need a serious look at welfare reform. We need Americans to want to be better and not receive handouts. We need a better education system that is handled at the local level, but with bare minimum federal standards. We need to cut all the excess and wasteful programs the government loses money on year in and year out, I'm looking at you USPS. We need the enemy to fear us and our overwhelming reach into 3rd world countries. We need to worry about our problems here before worrying about other nations problems. Bring jobs back to America and exercise a large tax on companies outsourcing jobs that can be done here. A flat tax and a consumer tax. Fire everyone in suits at the VA. Term limits on supreme court justices, congress and senate These are things that is important to me.

So, politics will stay corrupt because the people in politics make the rules/laws and they aren't going to change a system that rewards them, right? Everyone knows they're on the take, but nothing is done about it.

Wouldn't we be way better off if:

Each person in congress is paid an annual salary of $1,000,000 (don't worry, the combined cost is about what we're paying for two F-35 airplanes so not a big deal).
If any evidence comes to light that you take a free meal, car, flight, trip to some place, or a freaking swag bag with gifts from any person or group tied in any way to a political agenda/special interest, you're out and you can never work in elected politics again. Same if it is found that you're charging your personal meals, your personal expenses, or your families expenses to travel with you. Essentially you are paying for all your own stuff.

Or, in other words, we treat them like any employer treats any employee anywhere else at a job in this country.

If they can't be bought, do the ones that want to be bought never get into politics?

Wild and crazy/stupid idea, I know.

why would 1 million dollars prevent them from being bought, tho?

What prevents them from being bought is a system where they lose their job for any "perk" they take from anywhere. The $1 million is just a number -- something where they get paid enough that they can't have an excuse for taking something like a meal or gift. In reality, they should make what they make now and still not be bought.

yeah that was kind of my point.

if you believe in that system them it should be fine with whatever salary they currently make.

1 million certainly isn't going to prevent people from being bought out

True.

My take from all of this...Dave hates Spud Webb!!!

shel311 wrote:My take from all of this...Dave hates Spud Webb!!!

only at Center!!

I did an I Side With during lunch, I got Gary Johnson.

Great, never heard of him.