NDL Forum

US attended the Hiroshima Memorial event for first time on Aug. 5, 2010

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38580021/

Before I jump to conclusions here Has the Japs ever come over to the Memorial of Pearl Harbor? to pay their respects?
My guess is NO.

kdog36 wrote:Before I jump to conclusions here Has the Japs ever come over to the Memorial of Pearl Harbor? to pay their respects?
My guess is NO.

We're being the bigger man, lol.

Taking nothing away from Pearl Harbor, but I think dropping those 2 bombs were 2 of the lower points in American history. Maybe it was different times, but I can't ever see being a fan of intentionally killing thousands of CIVILIANS.

shel311 wrote:

kdog36 wrote:Before I jump to conclusions here Has the Japs ever come over to the Memorial of Pearl Harbor? to pay their respects?
My guess is NO.

We're being the bigger man, lol.

Taking nothing away from Pearl Harbor, but I think dropping those 2 bombs were 2 of the lower points in American history. Maybe it was different times, but I can't ever see being a fan of intentionally killing thousands of CIVILIANS.

Depends how you look at it Shel. It also showed our military might and ended the war. The fear of using nukes has kept subsequent wars from happening. No doubt though that the death to civilians and utter destruction of the land is hard to stomach. On a bright note, we gave them Ed Demming, they paid attention to TQM, and their products went from crap to great. So it's not all bad.

I think Truman was also told that if we invaded Japan, which seemed to be the only other solution, the estimates were that a million solders would be killed before they could defeat Japan in a land battle.

Remember, Japan still didn't surrender after the first bomb, they were days apart, it took a second atomic bomb to finally convince them they had lost.

Those bombs saved more British, American, and Japanese lives than if they didn't drop them. There would have been more death spread out all over Japan.

Mtwasik wrote:I think Truman was also told that if we invaded Japan, which seemed to be the only other solution, the estimates were that a million solders would be killed before they could defeat Japan in a land battle.

Remember, Japan still didn't surrender after the first bomb, they were days apart, it took a second atomic bomb to finally convince them they had lost.

This.

We had to drop the bomb. In a weird way, it was needed and it saved lives that would have been lost in warfare had it keep going. It ended the war, and proved that the US was superior on the 'world stage' so to speak.

My Grandpa told me something a couple months ago that blew my mind: Most Japanese dont know about Peal Harbor.

He and my Grandmother lived in Japan for a few years, and there was no mention in the schools of Pearl Harbor. They had a friend from the States visit and was verbally abused by a middle aged Japanese man about being American and bombing his country, to which my Grandpas friend replied, "We didnt start it, just finished it". The Japanese man was utterly confused

Another instance was when my grandparents went to Hawaii with a Japanese couple. When they were there they visited the Pearl Harbor exhibit, which was the FIRST TIME the Japanese couple had heard about it. They were in their late 50's in age. Apparently now, with the advances in global communication and internet, schools are integrating it into their curriculum, but I was amazed with those stories

different cultures different values.

if u havent seen the movie "Truman" with Gary Sinese(sp?), I highly recommend it.

TRULY underrated president who I think in the last 10-20 years is finally starting to get his due. I think he's what most imagined George Bush to be more like.

Good movie though and dheds a little light on the decision making process to drop those bombs

i bet if we're from switzerland or something we have a different opinion on this. It seems to me that sneak attacks and attacks on civilians are all beyond reproach.

Tren played the ends justify the means argument to a T, though

VeniVediV1ci wrote:i bet if we're from switzerland or something we have a different opinion on this. It seems to me that sneak attacks and attacks on civilians are all beyond reproach.

Tren played the ends justify the means argument to a T, though

Mind you, I am merely repeating what I've heard in documentaries.

It is just simple math, we don't drop the bombs and countless American troops invade Japan and both military and civilians die in thousands all over the country for who knows how long. Lets be real, this was war and many times there is no "good" option if you want to win.

Had Truman simply wanted to harm the enemy in a military sense, he would have bombed Kokura, home of a massive military arsenal. Instead he went for two urban areas where he knew the massive loss of life would demoralize the Japanese. Was it ethical? Who knows. When your own men's lives are at stake, how much can you worry about another nation's loss of life? Today Truman may not have made the same decision, with the 24/7 news and the internet. But at that time, he did what he felt was right for our country, and it was the right call. The Japanese still claim that it was the Soviets' pending invasion, not the bombs, that made them surrender, but we all know it was those two nasty little bombs. And had the Japanese not surrendered, we were working on a third bomb, possibly to be dropped on Yokohama.

And Shel....we killed almost as many civilians in the air raid on Tokyo as we did with either of the nuclear bombs. The Luftwaffe didn't give a shit about British civilians when they launched the Blitzkrieg on London; that's just part of war unfortunately, you do what you can to demoralize the enemy.

One other thing to keep in mind--I don't think the nuclear bombs were dropped to just hurt Japan; I don't think FDR or Truman EVER really trusted the Soviets and Stalin, and the dropping of those bombs sent a message to the Russians, that WE were the dominant military superpower in the world, and that they better realize what we could do if they challenged that.

I lived in Hawaii from March 1995 till December 2001. My first re-enlistment in 1997 was on the Arizona Memorial. My second re-enlistment came at Kolekole pass where the Japanese bombed Wheeler Army Air Field. I can say without a doubt that the Japanese have come to the Memorial in droves every day of the year. The 55 year anniversary President Clinton was there and I believe there were also deligates/dignataries from Japan there. I was there also when the USS Missouri was docked there and actually helped clean it up before it was opened as a Museum. The day it was opened I witnessed many Japanese people there. So to answer your question yes, they have sent dignitaries to the Arizona Memorial and the USS Missouri Memorial.

Now as far as the bombs being dropped. I think without a doubt it was the right thing to do. If they had invaded the main island of Japan there would have been countless American and Japanese losses. I wish the presidents of the last 20 years would have the balls enough to get rid of some of these countries we are fighting in now. The problem with the current wars we have is that we are not fighting countries, we are fighting theology and it isnt isolated to one location. Hell we even have some of those motherfuckers (t)here in the United States.

i don't think morality changes from one time to another so i'd say it worked but attacking civilians is not acceptable no matter what it does for a war

VeniVediV1ci wrote:i don't think morality changes from one time to another so i'd say it worked but attacking civilians is not acceptable no matter what it does for a war

It's easy for us to say that, but we aren't the ones who have to decide these things. I'm sure if American lives were in our hands, the choice would be much tougher. I feel the same way you do sometimes, but....it's a tough choice.

VeniVediV1ci wrote:i don't think morality changes from one time to another so i'd say it worked but attacking civilians is not acceptable no matter what it does for a war

I was gonna concede defeat since everyone disagreed, but you're gonna keep me going in this thread a little longer.

GeorgesGoons wrote:I lived in Hawaii from March 1995 till December 2001. My first re-enlistment in 1997 was on the Arizona Memorial. My second re-enlistment came at Kolekole pass where the Japanese bombed Wheeler Army Air Field. I can say without a doubt that the Japanese have come to the Memorial in droves every day of the year. The 55 year anniversary President Clinton was there and I believe there were also deligates/dignataries from Japan there. I was there also when the USS Missouri was docked there and actually helped clean it up before it was opened as a Museum. The day it was opened I witnessed many Japanese people there. So to answer your question yes, they have sent dignitaries to the Arizona Memorial and the USS Missouri Memorial.

Now as far as the bombs being dropped. I think without a doubt it was the right thing to do. If they had invaded the main island of Japan there would have been countless American and Japanese losses. I wish the presidents of the last 20 years would have the balls enough to get rid of some of these countries we are fighting in now. The problem with the current wars we have is that we are not fighting countries, we are fighting theology and it isnt isolated to one location. Hell we even have some of those motherfuckers (t)here in the United States.

Thanks Goons.

VeniVediV1ci wrote:i don't think morality changes from one time to another so i'd say it worked but attacking civilians is not acceptable no matter what it does for a war

No.

shel311 wrote:I was gonna concede defeat since everyone disagreed, but you're gonna keep me going in this thread a little longer.

We can take 'em