NDL Forum

Part of the role I have taken on is to try and fix problems before they arise. I was too late on the Financial and it affected several people (trendon mostly). I have recently found another problem that needs to be addressed. As long as we apply the solution before the first player draft, no one should be affected.

As you may now, this years OOTP added the complexity of signing our drafted players. The feature adds the financial aspect of being able to meet a players bonus demands (with a signing budget handed out by the owners) and a signing difficulty rating for each player that is unique to every team. As I was reviewing the draft list, I found a problem that will is unique to this version.

Problem:

The utility creates a draft list that is not always accurate with respect to the game's draft list. As a result, there are always a few extra players that show up on the utilities drafts list that are not on the game's draft list. These are players that are eligible to be drafted (think Juniors) but according to the game, have chosen to stay in college and would appear in next years draft.

Why Its Never Been a Problem Before:

In the past, we did not need to mess with the players financial obligations and signing difficulty ratings. If you wanted to draft a player, you simply chose them and they would end up as first year players with minor league contracts. The commish would go through the game's draft screen, select a player from the draft que and select him for every team. When a player was chosen that was not on the draft list (but existed in the utilities draft list), trendon would edit that player into the teams minor league team. It was a simple process that allowed us to overlook a simple problem.

How The Games Engine Works:
The new draft feature works in the following manner:
1. Draft list is created. All players entering draft are added to list. The game assigns the contract/bonus demands for each player on the list. Players not entering draft are left with default demand of slot or $0.
2. Through the game's draft tool, each player is selected in the draft from the draft pool. Players cannot be added to the draft pool (they can be taken off). Only players in the draft pool can be selected through the game's draft tool.
3. The game uses an internal calculation to determine salary demands for each slot based on the players draft selection. For example, the first player taken has a "slot" of $4.5M. The second player taken has a smaller "slot" bonus and so on. The bonus is deducted first from our draft expense and then from any available resources we have left over.
4. Teams have 1 month to sign their drafted players. Players will have difficulty ratings with respect to signability. Players not signed will be in next years draft and teams will get a compensation pick.

Why It Is Now A Problem:
There is no way to include a player that is not in the games draft list (but is on the utility) in the draft process. A player cannot be edited into the draft. As a result, these players will not go through the same features that all other players will go though. Their bonus demands wont be updated. Their signing difficulty rating will not be involved in the process. They will not have the opportunity to ask for major league contracts (some amateurs do). They will also not have their bonus deducted from the team. The reason is that the only way for trendon to get players from college and high school that do not show up on the draft list is to edited them directly into your team. The team that drafted them will never have to try and sign them and their draft budgets will not be effected. Because the game does not update the demands for players not included in the draft list, there is no way to calculate the accurate demands.

What Are the Options:
The good news is that no one has been affected as of yet because we have not started drafting. The most logical option is to avoid drafting players not listed on the games draft list. We can still use the utility (or use the games system, which I had recommended but no one liked) but we need to make sure we are using the list that is included in the game. Nick has volunteereed to keep a list updated if other prefer that idea. It would make drafting a little easier as everyone wont have to go through and compare the hundreds of player on the list to determine which player is included in the utility and not on the games list.

If everyone is adament about using the utility, there may be other more drastic options including:
1. Having trendon scrap the entire high school and college feeder system. Then the only players that would show up as amateur would be draftable players (this may have other concequenses with regards to the "quality" of players drafted.

Since we are a few days away from starting the draft, I am hoping you guys can have a "rational" discussion and keep bitching to a minimum. Remember, this has not affected anyone yet because we have not started drafting. What do you guys want to do?

Shel Notes:
- There are players included in the utilities draft list not included in the games draft list.
- Wasnt a problem in the past as they can be edited directly into the team, bypassing the games draft selection tool.
- OOTP12 includes a new feature requiring drafted players to sign contracts (major or minor), negotiate on bonuses, and has signing difficulty assigned to every palyer that is different for every team.
- New feature of ootp12 requires drafted players to be selected by the games draft tool.
- No way to include players not listed on games draft list in the games draft tool.
- Players that appear on utility but not on games draft list will not be given draft bonuses "slot or other," will not have a chance to sign major league contracts, and will not have their draft difficulty assigned to them.
- Easy solution is to not select players on the utility or use utility substitute.
- Other options include eliminating high school and college feeder leagues (may affect quality and quantity of drafted players)

I for one have always disliked the utility and always wanted to go in game but I know it's tough to do since we all can't access the game at the same time.

I am fine with eliminating whatever will be issue(game list) as well as someone keeping a spreadsheet as long as GE accessible for everyone.

Thanks for being proactive.

Im cool with whatever. I personally have an excel file with every single draftee ranked, so i dont even use the utility so the extra dudes would never be drafted by me (by my choice) so whatever, im cool with anything

I can keep an updated list of the draftees (ill put strike throughs, through them) and in alphabetical order, thats definitely not an issue

Forgive me, but I don't see any players available in StatsLab that are not in the game. I just did a cursory check (about 30 players) of the top batters that my scout has and all of them were in the draft pool and StatsLab. Make sure you weren't just looking for Juan Angel and calling it a day ... StatsLab handles accents differently and Angel is listed below zed when sorting things alphabetically.

Edit: Found one when doing it alphabetically, Danny Banks. Nobody will miss him. Unless I am too tired, this is a complete non-issue. I would love to know otherwise, though because I solved this problem two seasons ago (look at the in-game OOTp draft history and notice the difference in the player profile histories from 2011-2013 to the last two seasons drafts) and I wouldn't want it to show up again.

BrwnBear are you making the assumption that these juniors would want something more than the seniors do?

Matt Hood, #2 projected starter from the Draft Pool...



Jesus Rivera, top junior that I like not in the draft pool on OOTP...



I don't see the difference with regards to their demand? And Rivera it says eligible from college.

21 year old juniors are eligible for the draft IRL.

trendon wrote:Forgive me, but I don't see any players available in StatsLab that are not in the game. I just did a cursory check (about 30 players) of the top batters that my scout has and all of them were in the draft pool and StatsLab. Make sure you weren't just looking for Juan Angel and calling it a day ... StatsLab handles accents differently and Angel is listed below zed when sorting things alphabetically.

Edit: Found one when doing it alphabetically, Danny Banks. Nobody will miss him. Unless I am too tired, this is a complete non-issue. I would love to know otherwise, though because I solved this problem two seasons ago (look at the in-game OOTp draft history and notice the difference in the player profile histories from 2011-2013 to the last two seasons drafts) and I wouldn't want it to show up again.

Trendon, if a player is not available on the games draft list. What are the mechanics to get him drafted. Physically, what are the steps that you take to draft him? You cant use the games draft tools, which would require you to select the player on the games draft list and hit the button that says "draft player."

I have tried to do so with multiple simulation before I posted this tread. Please let me know if you have found out a different way outside of editing the player into the teams manually and avoiding the draft process.

Bernie32 wrote:BrwnBear are you making the assumption that these juniors would want something more than the seniors do?

Matt Hood, #2 projected starter from the Draft Pool...



Jesus Rivera, top junior that I like not in the draft pool on OOTP...



I don't see the difference with regards to their demand? And Rivera it says eligible from college.

21 year old juniors are eligible for the draft IRL.

The game engine has not calculated Juan Riveras demand because he is not on the draft list.

Here is the issue. Their is no way (unless tredon has figured it out, but according to my investigation from last night and info on the threads i found) to edit a player onto the games draft list. In order for each player to go through the games "prospect signing" steps, you need to be drafted using the games draft tool.

See where it says "extremely hard" for Rivera. In the games engine, the only way to sign them, would be to give him a ton of money, or a major league contract, ect. Without him going through the game's draft pool, however choses him will be exploiting a hole in the game to their benefit.

trendon wrote:Forgive me, but I don't see any players available in StatsLab that are not in the game. I just did a cursory check (about 30 players) of the top batters that my scout has and all of them were in the draft pool and StatsLab. Make sure you weren't just looking for Juan Angel and calling it a day ... StatsLab handles accents differently and Angel is listed below zed when sorting things alphabetically.

Edit: Found one when doing it alphabetically, Danny Banks. Nobody will miss him. Unless I am too tired, this is a complete non-issue. I would love to know otherwise, though because I solved this problem two seasons ago (look at the in-game OOTp draft history and notice the difference in the player profile histories from 2011-2013 to the last two seasons drafts) and I wouldn't want it to show up again.

Its not a problem with the players not being in the game. You are correct that they exist in both the utility and the game.

The issue with how the game handled the rookie bonus negotiation (bonus demand and difficulty signing rating). In order for each player to go through the process they have to be selected using the games draft engine. From there, the game calculates the players slot and transfers the player into the signing page where the players demands and difficulty signing are included.

When the player is not included in the draft list, he cannot go through the process. A team essentially exposes a flaw in our system to get a rookie on the team.

Try running a quick fictional league as a commish. Set up two feeder leagues. Once you get to the draft you will be able to see players not included on the draft que that are in the feeder list (like we have). If you go to the process of selection process (I added a manager at the last minute to help me view each player based on rank and to stop the draft) you will notice that their is no way to "draft" one of the players in the feeder leagues not included in the draft list. There just isnt a way to do so. If you go to the players edit screen, there is no way to edit a players name into the draft either.

Check it out and you will see what I am talking about. Better that we get this st

By the way the game breaks down the difficulty ratings into the following formats.

Easy - Looking forward to playing in your organization.

Hard - Need to meet demand to sign

Extremely Hard - Must at least meet demand

I'm so confused I'm like 2 steps from just letting the computer do it. Let me know whats decided and I'll figure it out from there.

I think I found a workaround...

I can find a player with low ratings that matches the difficulty rating for that players signing. In the case of Rivera it would be Extremely Hard. It will have to be a low rated player so we dont mess anyone else up.

I then copy all the attributes from Rivera and apply them to the drafted player. (The drafted player would have a fake name so we can track him later). Every attribute will need to be exactly the same. Trendon selects the edited player for the team that drafted him. That will put the player through the draft process and signing process. The team that selects him has to sign the edited player. Once the player has been signed, trendon will delete the sign player from the game and manually edit the player from the college team (edit any contract info) onto the minors.

This way preserves the difficulty rating and takes care of the draft budget stuff automatically. Thoughts?

Or we could agree to not draft players not included in the games draft list.

Uuaww wrote:I'm so confused I'm like 2 steps from just letting the computer do it. Let me know whats decided and I'll figure it out from there.

this issue only affects a few players. Just go to the games draft list and select a player when its your turn.

brwnbear wrote:I think I found a workaround...

I can find a player with low ratings that matches the difficulty rating for that players signing. In the case of Rivera it would be Extremely Hard. It will have to be a low rated player so we dont mess anyone else up.

I then copy all the attributes from Rivera and apply them to the drafted player. (The drafted player would have a fake name so we can track him later). Every attribute will need to be exactly the same. Trendon selects the edited player for the team that drafted him. That will put the player through the draft process and signing process. The team that selects him has to sign the edited player. Once the player has been signed, trendon will delete the sign player from the game and manually edit the player from the college team (edit any contract info) onto the minors.

This way preserves the difficulty rating and takes care of the draft budget stuff automatically. Thoughts?

Or we could agree to not draft players not included in the games draft list.

Did you see where Trendon said he used to work around it? IF he releases Rivera from St. John's, wouldn't he go through the process then? Look at the history of say Cliff Graves from my team, 2011 draft. Released by (college), Drafted by Hartford. At this moment, whoever should instantly go through the draft process as you call it. Where as look at Toronto, since he says he only uses draft pool. I think his guy was named Salinas. It says just Drafted by Toronto. So that 1 extra step of Trendon releasing the juniors, who mind you should be eligible anyway, should get everything to normal. If anything, I am at more of a disadvantage because I do not know if he all of a sudden will want 15 million signing bonus when we get to the signing of the draftees stage.

I hope we are not seriously considering dropping the high school and college feeder leagues. For those of us that play this game solely based on statistics, then it would make it like we were drafting blind. They would have no statistics to base a decision on for drafting purposes.

tball275 wrote:I hope we are not seriously considering dropping the high school and college feeder leagues. For those of us that play this game solely based on statistics, then it would make it like we were drafting blind. They would have no statistics to base a decision on for drafting purposes.

Yea, that can't be one of the options, IMO.




What if we simply make those guys not draft eligible, what happens to them? Do they go back to college another year? Become FAs later?

shel311 wrote:

tball275 wrote:I hope we are not seriously considering dropping the high school and college feeder leagues. For those of us that play this game solely based on statistics, then it would make it like we were drafting blind. They would have no statistics to base a decision on for drafting purposes.

Yea, that can't be one of the options, IMO.




What if we simply make those guys not draft eligible, what happens to them? Do they go back to college another year? Become FAs later?

The guys are already not draft eligible in the game. They are only draft eligible in the utility. The issue is making the guys that are draft eligible in the utility (a few guys) also draft eligible in the game.

In the game, guys like rivera would simply go to school another year and then come out next year.

Bernie32 wrote:
Did you see where Trendon said he used to work around it?

This was done manually by Trendon after the players where selected and transferred into the individual teams. All it did was fix the history. It does not solve the issue that the player never gets transferred into the games signing section.

Bernie32 wrote: IF he releases Rivera from St. John's, wouldn't he go through the process then? So that 1 extra step of Trendon releasing the juniors, who mind you should be eligible anyway, should get everything to normal.

Releasing Coulta would make him a free agent. He would not be included in the draft (I just tried with a league that has the exact same structure as ours.)

Bernie32 wrote: If anything, I am at more of a disadvantage because I do not know if he all of a sudden will want 15 million signing bonus when we get to the signing of the draftees stage.

You are not at a disadvantage. The games engine creates/updates the draft demands when the draft list is created for the players entering the draft. Those that dont enter the draft (through the games engine) will not receive an update. Even if there was a way to edit them into the draft, the status wouldnt change.

The only options to do this right is to:

1. Avoid drafting them players not included in the list ,allowing them to be drafted in next years draft.
2. Scrap the entire feeder system (no one wants)
3. Edit out players as ghost players with matching difficulty ratings and then transfer the players manually (explained above)
4. Some option I havent thought about or that Trendon has already worked out.

Again, this issue is unique to OOTP12.

brwnbear wrote:The issue is making the guys that are draft eligible in the utility (a few guys) also draft eligible in the game

If there aren't many of them and there is no way to make em draft eligible with the demands and all of that good stuff, is there any way to just delete and get rid of them before the draft starts?


Or put the onus on the owners to double check in both the game and the utility and those not in both aren't allowed to be drafted?

If an owner drafts a guy that is not draft eligible in the game, he either will be told no and needs to pick again, or if he's not able to be contacted, he forfeits his pick until he picks a new guy.



And for the new guys, I wouldn't worry about trying to understand all of this right now, I can see how it's not making sense. I'm certain once a solution is found, you guys will be brought up to speed and made sure you understand what's going on as we move forward.

brwnbear wrote:1. Avoid drafting them players not included in the list ,allowing them to be drafted in next years draft.

I like this one.



Also, wouldn't your webinar draft fix this issue as well, since we wouldn't use the utility? Or is that drafting system a no go?

shel311 wrote:

brwnbear wrote:1. Avoid drafting them players not included in the list ,allowing them to be drafted in next years draft.

I like this one.



Also, wouldn't your webinar draft fix this issue as well, since we wouldn't use the utility? Or is that drafting system a no go?

No one liked the idea.