***Official NBA Playoffs Thread***

[brwnbear]

I keep hearing that LeBron took less money to sign with Miami, but he is making more than Wade. I thought he was able to sign the full tender because he technically signed with Cleveland and then they traded him.

[ReignOnU]

Let me throw this scenario back at you...
...the cap gets tightened before the start of next season and Miami Heat get locked into a position where they can't put any other pieces around the big 3. Not only that, Miller/Haslem move on to better contracts and their replacements are fairly inadequate. The Heat lose in the 1st round of the playoffs for the next 2 seasons. After the 3rd season, Lebron bolts to go to Chicago to team with Derrick Rose, who has already won a title, to create the best (ok, reaching with Rose, so chill Dave ) 1-2 punch in the game, surrounded by tons of talent. Now what?

i don't get your point. if he did it legally within the rights of contract i'd be fine with it and i'd still love him in Chicago (but i wouldn't be a Bulls fan, i wasn't a Cavs fan either). If he hijacked his team and told them he wasn't going to play or sit out or something unless they traded him then i'd call him a complete douche, but he doesn't/hasn't ever done that.

LeBron (and any other player) doesn't owe shit to me, if he's doing it legally and fairly he should make whatever decisions he wants that help him sleep at night.

I'll venture to say that the majority of society doesn't think like you do. Most people hold others to their words. I'd be interested to hear Corey's thought on that scenario, as someone that is invested in the team, as a fan. The fact is, in this country, if you say one thing and do another, you're going to be hated. (see all politicians)

As for him deserving this much criticism, sure he does. If you're the best when you're good, then you're going to get bashed the most when you're bad. That's just how it works. Why don't we bash DeShawn Stevenson? Because he's DeShawn freakin' Stevenson. And it's not just the media that hypes him up as the greatest, we're talking about the guy who dubbed himself King James and who has "The Chosen One" tattooed across his back. He's the egomaniac, now he's getting hit with the downside of not living up to his own hype.

[oldschoola]

Lebron gets much praise and put upon a pedestal with millions of dollars to boot, before his career in the NBA even starts. I never once seen him complain about it. After a few seasons in the NBA and doesn't live up to the hype (i.e. the next Micheal Jordan). Still a great player but now he can't handle the criticism and poor him. If he can't stand the heat then get the FUCK out of the kitchen. You want me to have pity on him then FUCK that. He deserves everything he gets The good with the bad. He is a fucking beast on the court and gets results. He earned his mutherfuckingmoney!(and makes lots of it) He can't have it one way. He his responsible for his actions ON and OFF the court. He opens his own mouth and controls his words and he and only he is responsible for what he says and his actions. So no pity for Lebron just envy

[nick]

I have a question, tomorrow the NBA says you're a GM and there is a draft that night, everyone in the league is available, and you got 1st pick. Who are you taking #1? just curious

[ReignOnU]

1.) D. Howard
2.) C. Paul
3.) L. James or K. Durant

[DRiccio21]

when has LeBron EVER complained about any of it?

when has he ever asked people to stop bashing him... he never has. he takes it and he does what he does. nobody is asking anyone to pity a guy who is in LeBron's position, you certainly shouldn't... he's doing just fine. only reason i continue to harp on this subject is because its the hypocricy and 'kicking a guy when he's down' drives me nuts.

as for reign's last post... criticism for play is different than hate. you can criticize his game all you'd like, he didn't play to his capabilities in the finals and i'm sure he'd be the first to say it (actually he did in his post game). the issues i have is when you demonize a man for saying he thinks he can win multiple championships with his team (the horror of that) and then have no problem with a player getting a tattoo of the trophy on his bicep.

just be consistent.

[DRiccio21]

1.) D. Howard
2.) C. Paul
3.) L. James or K. Durant

stop it with that nonsense

you 'might' pick LeBron 3rd.

[ReignOnU]

Sure.

1.) Howard - Weakest position in the league. Most dominate big man. Still incredibly young.
2.) Paul - PG position has the ball in their hands every time down the floor and Paul has the ability to create for himself and for others. Admittedly, I haven't watched nearly as many of his games as I would have liked, but I put him ahead of D. Rose as the best PG in the league.
3.) Lebron / Durant - I think that these are the best 2 scorers in the league for the next decade. From a skills standpoint, Lebron has the edge. But I've also seen what has happened in Cleveland / Miami, offensively, with him on the court and I know the circus that is going to follow. Durant is the polar opposite. But almost to a fault. If I had seen more assertiveness out of him over the last 2 seasons, then I'd put Durant as the clear 3rd choice.

Of course this is done with 4 minutes of thought and I'm sure I overlooked someone. You also have to keep in mind the depth at each position. Hence, Howard #1.

[packsyD22]

How would you go with Paul before Lebron? Paul wasn't even considered the best PG this season or last till the series with the Lakers, your out of your mind.

[DRiccio21]

How would you go with Paul before Lebron? Paul wasn't even considered the best PG this season or last till the series with the Lakers, your out of your mind.

to be fair, while it doesn't change the ridiculousness of it, any 'stat guy' would have still taken Paul over any pg, provided he was healthy.

i think his top 4 is how i'd have my top 4 (just a different order), but mine would be 1. LeBron 2. Howard 3. Paul 4. Durant unless Paul's knee is the next Brandon Roy's, then i bump Durant to 3 and Paul is way back.

[ReignOnU]

So our rankings are the same, minus James.

We've seen him with tons of role players, we've seen him with 2 other good players. In each case, the offense has run into issues against elite competition. So what are you plans for the team to avoid this issue? Me, I don't see a solution, which is why I'd take 1 of the other 2 (potentially 3) before him.

The only logical thing I can think of is a team with a solid offensive post player, solid defensive post player, and 2 good shooters at the guard spot that don't need the ball in their hands.

[ReignOnU]

And for the record, I take him #3/#4 over everyone else, simply because I know he can get me to the playoffs with anyone else that I put on the floor. I take the other guys ahead of him because I think I can build a team that I'd win a title with, without the potential headache along the way. I guess I've seen him in 2 scenarios now, I'd like to see Howard/Paul with some legit help. Howard wasn't too far off with a good team around him, but I saw a lot of issues then.

[DRiccio21]

In each case, the offense has run into issues against elite competition.

Miami didn't lose because of offense.

If Dallas doesn't shoot 50+% from 3 over a 2 game span we're not worried about their 4th quarter performances, the Heat win the games. Miami scored 103 and 95 in the final two games and shot very efficiently.

you can't pick and choose when they run into issues. they played the best defensive team in the NBA and their 4th quarter production was very good vs the Bulls. Then they struggled vs Dallas and now they 'run into issues'.

if you ask any Miami player, coach, gm, president if they'll take 95 points and 47% shooting every game for 82 games + playoffs, each one of them would say yes.

Dallas beat Miami because they shot well and they played better and hit the shots when they needed to. Miami certainly struggled in the 4th quarter, but those situations don't happen if the defense is better over the first 3.

[ReignOnU]

Not concerned with your debate about the offense. Bad choice of words by me. He clearly wasn't playing up to his level.

[Matt90210]

[DRiccio21]

Not concerned with your debate about the offense. Bad choice of words by me. He clearly wasn't playing up to his level.

but if the defense is better and they win, then your point isn't valid, because his teams could get it done... whether he was up to his level of greatness or not... its not as if he was bad other than 1 game.

you asked me what my plans were? as if this was something that is uncurable, as if they were so far away from victory that i'd need to come up with some new scheme to get things done. i'd do the exact same thing... they were outplayed and ultimately lost but they easily could have won the series had a bounce or 2 gone a different way. my plan is to play the best player in the world on my team as he gives me the best chance to win games. you don't break up things or change things that are that close to winning. of course you tweak the weak points, but you play the best possible hands and the probabilities and wait for the results to work out your way, they eventually will.

In a year from now if LeBron and the Heat win it, did he suddenly 'get it' and become a new player? absolutely nothing changes based on a few games in the finals... the guy is still the guy he always was. he played poorly (mainly in just the 4th quarter) over a 6 game stretch... it changes nothing.

[Matt90210]

Will LeBron still be the best rated player in NBA 2K12?

[ajalves]

I could care less if he did the decision, or the party at the arena with the 3 of them a week later, i really dont care. But lets not pretend a huge part of it wasn't ego.

finally, if guys in here cant call him a dick because they dont "know" him as a person, the flip is also true, you also cant say he is a "helluva good guy outside of hoops"

all i care about is consistency.

alot of athletes have that ego, alot say and do stupid shit (see Jason Terry, Deshawn Stevenson). nobody gets crushed like LeBron... has he really brought that onto himself or is it the fact he's a mega star and its a good story for the media.

also, i'm not saying LeBron is a good dude or a bad dude, not saying he isn't an egomaniac (of course he is) or that he doesn't deserve to get ripped for saying they were going to win 5,6,7 rings... he does. just not NEARLY as bad as he gets it. he shouldn't be the 2nd most hated athlete in the world for what he's done.

he nicknamed himself the King.

and lets be honest, he has hardly got any scrutiny till after "the decision"

i mean hedid, but not like now

[ReignOnU]

Not concerned with your debate about the offense. Bad choice of words by me. He clearly wasn't playing up to his level.

but if the defense is better and they win, then your point isn't valid, because his teams could get it done... whether he was up to his level of greatness or not... its not as if he was bad other than 1 game.

you asked me what my plans were? as if this was something that is uncurable, as if they were so far away from victory that i'd need to come up with some new scheme to get things done. i'd do the exact same thing... they were outplayed and ultimately lost but they easily could have won the series had a bounce or 2 gone a different way. my plan is to play the best player in the world on my team as he gives me the best chance to win games. you don't break up things or change things that are that close to winning. of course you tweak the weak points, but you play the best possible hands and the probabilities and wait for the results to work out your way, they eventually will.

In a year from now if LeBron and the Heat win it, did he suddenly 'get it' and become a new player? absolutely nothing changes based on a few games in the finals... the guy is still the guy he always was. he played poorly (mainly in just the 4th quarter) over a 6 game stretch... it changes nothing.

I'm not really sure where you're going.

My posted asked you if you took Lebron as your 1st pick in Nick's scenario, then how would you build the team around him to make it successful.

As for your last paragraph, it's dead on. He's still the same guy. And you'll be bringing that exact same argument to the table next season.

Your numbers suggest his FG% was good. My eyes tell me he forced shots and wasn't always in sync with his team. We've debated this since October. My eyes 1, your numbers 0.

[Cnasty]

God this shit makes my head spin and I'm the only freaking heat fan here!!!!! Besides Baker and his weird obsession with Sherman douglas