Occupy Wall Street

[jsence2]

I do somewhat support some easing of student loan issues, especially in the private sector where loan rates can be as high as 18% without default. It's robbery, especially when many of these schools are getting kickbacks for pushing students to lendors who charge out the ass in interest and students have few options but to bite the bullet and pay them--and then pay astronomical fees (UK, for example, tuition is 70% higher now than it was when I went there just five years ago) and then half the students can't get jobs out of college.

[trendon]

I'm with Trendon, I support these people DOING something but don't really support everything they're after. Protesting is a right that our founding fathers fought and died for, and it is a vital part of a republic's survival. If nobody stands up and says/does anything, then the government gets away with whatever it wants.

This is what I figured Trendon meant and if he does, then more power to him. Otherwise I was hoping of getting a general summary of the OWS protest to get a feel for what they are about because I dont have a very positive impression based on what I have experienced and read. It seems like a bunch of spoiled brats who dont want any responsibilty for the actions they have done (dont want to pay back debts they have taken).

I have no idea what the hell they want, to be perfectly honest.

[vicktim7]

I'm with Trendon, I support these people DOING something but don't really support everything they're after. Protesting is a right that our founding fathers fought and died for, and it is a vital part of a republic's survival. If nobody stands up and says/does anything, then the government gets away with whatever it wants.

This is what I figured Trendon meant and if he does, then more power to him. Otherwise I was hoping of getting a general summary of the OWS protest to get a feel for what they are about because I dont have a very positive impression based on what I have experienced and read. It seems like a bunch of spoiled brats who dont want any responsibilty for the actions they have done (dont want to pay back debts they have taken).

I have no idea what the hell they want, to be perfectly honest.

apparently they want more places to go to the bathroom:

[brwnbear]

I was actually worried when I heard that they represent 99% of the population. I thought I was fucked. I will sleep better knowing most on in the NDL are not like that.

[jsence2]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhrwmJcsfT0[/youtube]

[nick]

I was actually worried when I heard that they represent 99% of the population. I thought I was fucked. I will sleep better knowing most on in the NDL are not like that.

im scared to go against you now. you might gouge my eyes out with a pen. What color? Black? Blue?

[6ftdeep]

I agree with trendon on this topic.. While their are some idiots out there protesting that have no clue what they are protesting about but just there to protest should just keep their mouth shut.. So the efforts of the knowledgeable protesters are actually heard for their merit.

This protest does have some merit to it. And say more power to them.

people don't want to work for anything so they blame others.

our generation is full of cry babies who feel entitled to shit. fuck em all

what did they think would be the outcome when EVERYONE earns a trophy back when little, and now that when they do nothing they are not rewarded?

Everyone should be given the same opportunity to succeed, but everyone is not entitled to succeed. I dont understand why people complain when they see corporations are making record profits and still not hiring people. Is that not the point of running a buisiness? Many places are seeing how much fluff they were carrying back pre-2007/2008 and are able to produce at similar levels at fractions of the cost. If I had a business, I would not increase my payroll if I was not going earn more back than the cost of hiring the person.

+1

See this statement is the problem with America today. I mean WTF , how many of these people working for these corporations are currently overworked and underpayed, how many are salary and put in 60 to 80 hour work weeks and do the job of 2 of 3 people. Where yea hiring someone to help lessen the stress levles and workload of person A might cut into profit, but by hiring person B you have just made the lives of 2 people better.

There are so many major corporations who could hire more people with out taking major hits to their profit and I bet some of those employees would welcome a somewhat lighter workload. Frankly I m tired of hearing the bullshit that some say , people feel they are entitled blah blah blah and only complain.

Truth of the matter is not everyone is given the same opportunity to succeed, despite what you may like to believe. And if you think it is ok for 86% of all wealth of this country to be held by only 15% of the people and the rest of the wealth spread out the rest then I m just at a lost of words. There is a major social economic problem in this country, and it is mostly perpetuated by greed, plain and simple.

I mean really what is the difference for some of these companies who are making millions in profit, oh god forbid they hire a few more people and may lose 1 million in profit of their hundreds.

Also if you think it is ok for companies to not hire, or ship jobs to other countries where labor is cheaper, then you cant bitch about people receiving a unemployment check or them bitching about not being able to find a job that they are qualified for, or complaining about your tax dollars going to help support their families.

And if you also wonder why people bitch about companies making profit and not hiring, because the biggest argument that right wing economist argue on not taxing the nations wealthiest more and corporations harder, is a corporation making profits will invest, innovate and create more jobs, which thus stimulates the economy. If they are making record profits, and the government is not taxing them at higher rates to give the government more revenue to fund its programs for different services needed. Then shouldn't technically based on the conservative right wing economic thought process on creating a healthy economy, by creating new jobs and hiring more people? But this is not happening.

[DRiccio21]

i just spend the last 30 minutes writing a ridiculously long reply and then my computer froze.

6ft... do you understand what capitalism is? are you a socialist?

[DRiccio21]

Truth of the matter is not everyone is given the same opportunity to succeed, despite what you may like to believe. And if you think it is ok for 86% of all wealth of this country to be held by only 15% of the people and the rest of the wealth spread out the rest then I m just at a lost of words. There is a major social economic problem in this country, and it is mostly perpetuated by greed, plain and simple.

how aren't you given the same opportunity to succeed?

i love listening to this comment... all i hear is waaaaaa, waaaaa, its not fair.... waaaaaa

here is what i've seen in my life (and i tell this story whenever i hear someone make this comment, so i apologize for telling it again but i'm proud of my story and i think its a fitting reply to that comment):

i have a lazy italian dad who never worked. my mom worked as an office asst and supported our family on about 35-40k per year. i got lucky and was able to get a scholarship for baseball. i couldn't afford the room/board (which wasn't covered) and i knew i didnt want loans so i graduated in 3 years and had to work on top of playing a sport and getting good grades. i moved to NYC and started working on wall st for 250 bucks per week and no medical insurance the day after i graduated. i got 250 bucks per week for 8 weeks to study for my series 7. i studied my balls off every day for a month and got my series 7 and 66 so i could have 4 weeks of that 250 to cover me while i started growing my book. i was given a telephone and told to grow my business. from there i worked 15 hours per day, usually 6 days per week, sometimes 7 from age 20 to age 23 trying to grow a business while all my friends were out partying and fucking around. i made 17k year my first year, i made 17k per month by the end of my 2nd year. i created wealth for myself by working my fucking balls off. i had every opportunity possible and i came from public school education and had very little guidance from my parents in terms of how to succeed (they were great parents, just didn't understand business). i have no company credit card, i have no pension, i have no salary, i pay my own health insurance, i don't get any matching 401k. i don't go to work, i don't survive. my brother's story is identical. our COO was a street kid from Brooklyn who started exactly like me and now is in charge of 3600 financial advisors and he makes well into 7 figures. our firm had about 600 employees when he was promoted to COO. he gets to work at 5 am and leaves at 8 pm. he barely sees his family (shitty life, imo, but thats what he wants).

my point isn't that i'm some fucking hero, every person in this league could do what i did. anyone can do anything they want in our country. to say that we can't is a slap in the face of not only people like my brother and I who have done it, but moreso to our parents, grandparents and troops who gave us that opportunity.

but guys like me are the problem if you ask these 'occupy wallstreet' idiots.

[DRiccio21]

also... let me add to this.. noley triple post style

i'm not saying everyone has to or should go out and work 15 hour days and give up their social life to create wealth. obviously thats not important to everyone. but if you realize we live in a society built on capitalism, realize those opportunities are there and you choose not to take them than i have very little sympathy for people complaining that certain people make a lot of money and certain people don't.

nobody is being blindsided here.

again, there ARE some awful injustices going on. i've said countless times there is nothing more corrupt than the financial system. but that doesn't mean everyone who makes money is bad or everyone in the financial system is corrupt. yet the protests and soon to be riots are based on the idea that the system is broke and everyone involved is bad.

my life will change drastically because of certain measures that will be taken if they change certain laws that have been proposed. basically i will give up more of the money i earned and take care of those who haven't worked 1/10th as hard as i have. if you think thats fair, then you are a socialist.

[ReignOnU]

See this statement is the problem with America today. I mean WTF , how many of these people working for these corporations are currently overworked and underpayed, how many are salary and put in 60 to 80 hour work weeks and do the job of 2 of 3 people. Where yea hiring someone to help lessen the stress levles and workload of person A might cut into profit, but by hiring person B you have just made the lives of 2 people better.

When you accept that salary, you accept the workload the comes with it. If you don't want the cash, don't take the job.

There are so many major corporations who could hire more people with out taking major hits to their profit and I bet some of those employees would welcome a somewhat lighter workload. Frankly I m tired of hearing the bullshit that some say , people feel they are entitled blah blah blah and only complain.

You want a lighter workload? Take less pay. Obviously there are people willing to do double the work to take 1.75x the pay.

Truth of the matter is not everyone is given the same opportunity to succeed, despite what you may like to believe. And if you think it is ok for 86% of all wealth of this country to be held by only 15% of the people and the rest of the wealth spread out the rest then I m just at a lost of words. There is a major social economic problem in this country, and it is mostly perpetuated by greed, plain and simple.

This is the nature of life. There is an 80/20 rule that applies to just about everything. Sure, quite a few people get more breaks than others. But too many people want to sit around and complain that they didn't catch a break, instead of going out and doing something about it.

I mean really what is the difference for some of these companies who are making millions in profit, oh god forbid they hire a few more people and may lose 1 million in profit of their hundreds.

Their business is to make money, not make your life better.

Also if you think it is ok for companies to not hire, or ship jobs to other countries where labor is cheaper, then you cant bitch about people receiving a unemployment check or them bitching about not being able to find a job that they are qualified for, or complaining about your tax dollars going to help support their families.

I don't like that those jobs are going overseas, but I certainly don't blame the companies for doing it. The fact is, Americans have repeatedly shot ourselves in the foot and forced this situation. I've had 3 friends laid off in the last 3 years and each one of them choose to sit on unemployment because it paid an acceptable rate, compared to a job that they could secure. All 3 of them could have easily picked up a job for 60-70% less pay than they originally made, which would have still been adequate.

Americans are simply too dumb to realize that we demand more money from our jobs, which increases company expenses, which eliminates positions and/or increases prices... so we demand more again. So what do the businesses do? You got it, find cheaper labor to cut expenses, so they don't have to raise their prices. Then... we complain that we have no jobs and blame the companies.

More people want, want, want and aren't willing to give to get it. Then, you want to chastise those people that are willing to take on the extra workload to make 1.5/1.75x more than the average? Why? Because they don't demand a lighter workload for the increased pay? Because they aren't WANTING more while GIVING less?

And if you also wonder why people bitch about companies making profit and not hiring, because the biggest argument that right wing economist argue on not taxing the nations wealthiest more and corporations harder, is a corporation making profits will invest, innovate and create more jobs, which thus stimulates the economy. If they are making record profits, and the government is not taxing them at higher rates to give the government more revenue to fund its programs for different services needed. Then shouldn't technically based on the conservative right wing economic thought process on creating a healthy economy, by creating new jobs and hiring more people? But this is not happening.

It is because our government is incompetent. I will never blame a business for doing what is in the best interest of making a profit (from a LEGAL standpoint). Until our government grows a set and starts taxing businesses properly and doing something about imports/exports, then we are destined to see this continue.

[ReignOnU]

I'm not going to respond to everything Dave said, but I'll leave it with a simple A-F'n-Men!

[Cunit879]

It is a very large group of people who are all there for different reasons (See the list of absurd demands that collectively came up with). They are idiots. They are a mob of pussies. They are trying to get arrested so they look like martyrs. These protesters have claimed to be inspired by their "Muslims brothers" while actually comparing themselves and this protest to Egypt's protests and protestors. They failed to mention that people in Egypt were getting their faces blown off and ran the risk of getting thrown in jail with no right to anything every single day they went out there. This is an example of a bunch of cunts making a fantasy out of they are doing.

Here is what I think is the funniest part and I am sure it has been referenced already. Any demand they have about 1 universal healthcare company or using solely renewable energy or $20 minimum wage WILL KILL MILLIONS OF JOBS!!! Forgiving college loans? Nothing is free, we will have to pay for it through taxes anyway, not mention how selfish that concept is. You went to college and got an education but everyone else should pay for it?

No respect for any of it.

[Shiftdnb]

A lot of you guys fail to see what corporate money and lobbying has done to America and the American political system. This is what a lot of these people are protesting.

I recommend watching the documentary The Corporation to see the history behind corporations and the money going into politics and I think you'd understand why these people are protesting.

The biggest thing for me in a lot of of the views I'm seeing in this is that every single one of us could at any moment be laid off and affected by what the future holds. You may sit there and think you'll be okay that you're a hard worker and you bust your ass, but the very thing you're supporting is the conservative movement to end unemployment assistance. Those of you with kids, what happens when your unemployment goes out and god forbid you have to put your family on welfare. The people you're supporting want to end welfare. Meanwhile, banks are too big to fail so we give them billions of dollars, corporations are getting huge tax benefits, and trying to get tax holidays in order to move money back into the US under the guise of creating more jobs (was done once before, the companies involved, laid of 600,000 workers soon after). CEO's are given astronomical bonuses even when their companies fail. Corporations are sitting on record profits meanwhile they're laying off and not hiring. A lot of us are being duped into an us versus the protesters mentality, and guess what, the 1% that own 40% of the wealth in this nation greatly appreciate your support but will not be there to support you.

Now before you go off and say I'm a socialist and that I'm one of those that won't work for my pay. Let me pull a little Riccio and tell you my families story. My father was 18 and my mom was 17 when they had me. My dad joined the Navy to support us and those of you who have been in the military know it's no picnic when you're an E-1 to E-3 raising a family. When I graduated high school, I got offered a scholarship for track but it wasn't a school I wanted to go to so I ended up joining the military as my parents and I didn't have the money to pay for college. I put in 4 years 9 months and 3 long ass days and I went to school with the help of the GI Bill. The GI Bill does not cover all costs of school, it doesn't even come close. So I had college loans when I got out and I tried for 6 months to get a job but was either over qualified for the jobs that I could work while looking for something in my field or I wasn't experienced enough in my field. I worked odd jobs and free lance, even one time working for $150 for a week just to make rent. Fast forward to today where I am a manager of a warehouse. I may have worked hard to get here but I'm at least going to acknowledge the color of my skin and not being from an inner city education system had something to do with it.

Another thing, I seem to remember a shit load of protesting before the Iraq war and I hear a lot of the same vitriol aimed at them through the media talking heads and some of you. Seems to me they were right on that as well. It was engrained in us that they were all dirty hippies and we don't listen to no damn dirty hippies.

[VeniVediV1ci]

i read sixft's post until the novels that followed it came out, but corporations aren't here to make us all fat and happy.

They are there to make money and if they do (and it's deemed legal) then they're doing the right thing.

If you're good enough at what you'll do, you'll get somewhere. That's what I believe.

Certainly there are obstacles, but if you're the greatest at your profession in the world they're not going to make decisions to keep them from making money

[Shiftdnb]

They are there to make money and if they do (and it's deemed legal) then they're doing the right thing.

Problem in your theory...The corporations have enough money to dump into the pockets of the people that make the laws. Not to mention the revolving door that is politics, lobbying, and regulation. Again, I recommend you watch The Corporation

[DRiccio21]

so what are they protesting that is going to end coruption?

coruption will be even more prevalent the larger you make the gov't, which is basically what they're fighting for. let the gov't take care of everyone. free healthcare!!! yayyyyy!! no more college loans!! yayyyy!!!

[ReignOnU]

They are there to make money and if they do (and it's deemed legal) then they're doing the right thing.

Problem in your theory...The corporations have enough money to dump into the pockets of the people that make the laws. Not to mention the revolving door that is politics, lobbying, and regulation. Again, I recommend you watch The Corporation

Don't point the finger at the corporations for having the money to buy a competitive edge, point the finger at the ELECTED officials... the US representatives, that are lining their pockets with that money.

[Shiftdnb]

so what are they protesting that is going to end coruption?

coruption will be even more prevalent the larger you make the gov't, which is basically what they're fighting for. let the gov't take care of everyone. free healthcare!!! yayyyyy!! no more college loans!! yayyyy!!!

It's views like this that will forever add to the inability to do anything rationally. Can't you see this is a complex issue? It's not just about college loans, it's not just about bank bailouts, it's the inequality of the system. The government in this country is supposed to be a government of the people, by the people, for the people and it's clearly not that anymore.

What really drives me crazy is a lot of people on the conservative side scream "I want my America back!" When in America's history do you want to go back to?

[ReignOnU]

The biggest thing for me in a lot of of the views I'm seeing in this is that every single one of us could at any moment be laid off and affected by what the future holds. You may sit there and think you'll be okay that you're a hard worker and you bust your ass, but the very thing you're supporting is the conservative movement to end unemployment assistance. Those of you with kids, what happens when your unemployment goes out and god forbid you have to put your family on welfare. The people you're supporting want to end welfare.

If you are doing the right things on a day to day basis, this is NOT a legit concern. But the truth is, most people are not. Instead, they are sitting on their butts with their hands out, expecting help. They feel entitled to it. If you're in a position where this is a legit concern, then you haven't done the responsible things up until this point. Too many people feel that they NEED to have a nice car, a cell phone, cable tv, internet, or eat out for lunch everyday, or dinner most nights. The fact is, when it gets down to it, NONE of that is essential.

Meanwhile, banks are too big to fail so we give them billions of dollars, corporations are getting huge tax benefits, and trying to get tax holidays in order to move money back into the US under the guise of creating more jobs (was done once before, the companies involved, laid of 600,000 workers soon after). CEO's are given astronomical bonuses even when their companies fail. Corporations are sitting on record profits meanwhile they're laying off and not hiring.

This is all on the government for not regulating / taxing properly. Our ELECTED officials.