NBA Thread

[packsyD22]

its also funny how i have said and think Kobe is one of the top 25 best players who has ever lived... have said that on here about a million times... yet i still 'only' hate on him.

Hatin if you don't say top 5.

More like top ten fifteen all time at his position.

[DRiccio21]

but there were 50 other NBA centers that were either 7ft or 300 lbs when Shaq was playing

Gotta be honest, I don't recall seeing 5-10, much less 50 centers Shaq's size.

he was closer to 350 than he was to 300, at 7'1".

I just never saw those guys. Shaq was noticeably bigger than just about every center he faced in his prime.

do the % differences.

there is a huge difference between 7'0 and 6'7 like Wilt saw everynight.

alot bigger than 7'1 340 and 7'0 280-300 like Shaq saw.

if you don't want to discount it for Wilt, than thats your opinion. its obviously subjective. i just think its a pretty fair opinion to think that Wilt wouldn't be putting up 50 & 20 for a season if he played when Shaq played. why would that be?

[DRiccio21]

its also funny how i have said and think Kobe is one of the top 25 best players who has ever lived... have said that on here about a million times... yet i still 'only' hate on him.

Hatin if you don't say top 5.

More like top ten fifteen all time at his position.

man, i have no clue what your typing half the time

and after your last few posts, this is your first reply? c'mon man!

[dakshdar]

its also funny how i have said and think Kobe is one of the top 25 best players who has ever lived... have said that on here about a million times... yet i still 'only' hate on him.

Hatin if you don't say top 5.

More like top ten fifteen all time at his position.

man, i have no clue what your typing half the time

and after your last few posts, this is your first reply? c'mon man!

He's pretty clear, I think. He's saying Kobe is top 1015 all time at his position. Another way of saying it would be to say he is top one thousand and fifteen at his position all time.

However, I don't think this is something that many people would debate, so I don't know why he needed to post it.

[DRiccio21]

i think it was supposed to be sarcastic somehow, but i still have no idea what he was trying to say.

[packsyD22]

Shel quotes Dave saying if you don't say he's top five your hating.

I then said that I think (no sarcasm) he's top ten to fifteen at his position. I don't think he is top five material at all.

[DRiccio21]

Shel quotes Dave saying if you don't say he's top five your hating.

I then said that I think (no sarcasm) he's top ten to fifteen at his position. I don't think he is top five material at all.

oh ok. sorry, i misunderstood

well, i think he's better than that. i think he's top 8 or so guards of all time. somewhere around top 20 at any position.

so i'm the hater and i think he's better than you do!

and shel was being sarcastic... i think anyways

[shel311]

do the % differences.

there is a huge difference between 7'0 and 6'7 like Wilt saw everynight.

alot bigger than 7'1 340 and 7'0 280-300 like Shaq saw

It also had just as much to do with there being like 8 or 10 teams.

A quick look at rosters/playing time on basketball reference, a couple of teams were trotting out 6'8 guys, but most were in the 6'10 range.

6'10 vs 7'1, or 340 vs 280-300. Not a very big difference, IMO.

if you don't want to discount it for Wilt, than thats your opinion. its obviously subjective. i just think its a pretty fair opinion to think that Wilt wouldn't be putting up 50 & 20 for a season if he played when Shaq played. why would that be?

Whoa there. I never said that. I just asked where you draw the line.

[packsyD22]

Shel quotes Dave saying if you don't say he's top five your hating.

I then said that I think (no sarcasm) he's top ten to fifteen at his position. I don't think he is top five material at all.

oh ok. sorry, i misunderstood

well, i think he's better than that. i think he's top 8 or so guards of all time. somewhere around top 20 at any position.

so i'm the hater and i think he's better than you do!

That's right!

[DRiccio21]

well his greatness is the fact he was putting up 50&20 for seasons at a time and that he scored 100 in a game.

just using deductive reasoning, if you don't think he'd put up those types of numbers in today's league than you'd agree he's overrated when people use the size of the players he played against as the rationale. so, you agree with us on our comment.

as for your question... there is no line. that's hard to draw. but at some point you see an enormous outlier like Wilt and you have to dive in deeper to figure out why the fcuk that dude was able to do what he did and why someone like Shaq couldn't. and my answer, completely subjective and just using logic, would tell me because the difference in the size, strength and skill of Shaq was comparably less than Wilt's was against players in his generation.

[ajalves]

big difference between 7'1 and 6'10 IMO.

im 6'4" when i have to gueard a guy 6'7", thats a pretty big difference

[ReignOnU]

1.) Jordan
2a.) Lebron
2b.) Shaq

... being an elite player doesn't necessarily translate to winning titles, but having those titles can certainly help the argument.

IF Lebron starts winning rings and makes it until 34/35 yrs old, he will be #1, without question. Jordan is with in his grasp. We're basically watching Tiger chase Jack (though how the players are measured are a bit different)

I'll add to this, if Shaq shoots 75% from the line, we're probably having a completely different conversation. Shaq would dominate every big man in the history of the game, including Wilt and Kareem. They wouldn't have the slightest idea how to handle his size and speed. (most people have the slightest clue as to how explosive/quick Shaq was, with respect to his size.)

[shel311]

as for your question... there is no line. that's hard to draw. but at some point you see an enormous outlier like Wilt and you have to dive in deeper to figure out why the fcuk that dude was able to do what he did and why someone like Shaq couldn't. and my answer, completely subjective and just using logic, would tell me because the difference in the size, strength and skill of Shaq was comparably less than Wilt's was against players in his generation

I think it has just as much to do with the time, amount of players playing and stuff like that, then it did with being 3 or 4 inches taller than most guys guarding him.

[shel311]

big difference between 7'1 and 6'10 IMO.

im 6'4" when i have to gueard a guy 6'7", thats a pretty big difference

Sure. Much like being 340 going up against guys 280-300lbs every night.

[packsyD22]

Is there a reason bird shouldn't be right there? Did he play bad defense or something. Can't we say bird magic and Lebron are all about equal with one doing something better than the other?

And then there is Jordan.

And shaq is just a monster. He dominated the league for many seasons.

[Cnasty]

How's Lin doing?

[shel311]

How's Lin doing?

He's wearing some decent looking suits lately.

Not really blowing me away or anything though.

[DRiccio21]

1.) Jordan
2a.) Lebron
2b.) Shaq

... being an elite player doesn't necessarily translate to winning titles, but having those titles can certainly help the argument.

IF Lebron starts winning rings and makes it until 34/35 yrs old, he will be #1, without question. Jordan is with in his grasp. We're basically watching Tiger chase Jack (though how the players are measured are a bit different)

I'll add to this, if Shaq shoots 75% from the line, we're probably having a completely different conversation. Shaq would dominate every big man in the history of the game, including Wilt and Kareem. They wouldn't have the slightest idea how to handle his size and speed. (most people have the slightest clue as to how explosive/quick Shaq was, with respect to his size.)

agree with most of this. except i think Lebron would have to continue to improve his scoring to get to MJ level. i think MJ is pretty clearly ahead of Lebron with or without titles.

and to be fair to the 'title crew', when two players are very close, i'll use 'titles' as one of the categories to compare, but its not the 1st thing or probably even the 5th thing i'd look at.

Shaq is #3, but i agree if he could shoot ft's he'd have been even better. but he couldn't so the if's are pointless.

[packsyD22]

How's Lin doing?

Grouchie Hater.

[DRiccio21]

as for your question... there is no line. that's hard to draw. but at some point you see an enormous outlier like Wilt and you have to dive in deeper to figure out why the fcuk that dude was able to do what he did and why someone like Shaq couldn't. and my answer, completely subjective and just using logic, would tell me because the difference in the size, strength and skill of Shaq was comparably less than Wilt's was against players in his generation

I think it has just as much to do with the time, amount of players playing and stuff like that, then it did with being 3 or 4 inches taller than most guys guarding him.

how does the amount of players he played against allow him to go for 50&20 for a season? go watch some Wilt videos. his famous move was having his back to the basket and just turning his shoulder slightly and fingerrolling over his opponents head. i mean, come on!