Serious Military spending question

[Wasted Memory]

Where you a CTR? while at Fort Meade? What did you do, I had a chance to go work there at one point but I tried to avoid that place like the plague. I was in Intel before switching jobs.

CTM. Did 2 years of Cyber Incident Analysis and then switched over to the TSCM community. Probably the greatest decision I ever made. Got out after doing that at Fort Meade for 4 years and started doing it as a contractor for different DoD agencies. Ultimately led to a pretty cush job here in Cookeville, TN.

[GeorgesGoons]

I like the fact we have the insanely powerful military that we do. However, and I always HAVE to ask this, why should I be thankful for servicemen? Were they drafted? It isn't that I have a negative opinion about them; not at all, I love that we have legions of killing machines at our disposal. But, I always have a hard time rationalizing why I should be outwardly effusive with my praise of them.

So, sorry if this offends, it just doesn't add up.

None of us were drafted, and that is why you should be thankful. If it werent for us that volunteered, no matter what the circumstance was, there would be a draft and everyone that has enjoyed the American way of life would actually understand and appreciate the freedoms that they enjoy daily. That is why, as you say, you should have an outwardly effusive with your praise to all that have served.

[trendon]

I like the fact we have the insanely powerful military that we do. However, and I always HAVE to ask this, why should I be thankful for servicemen? Were they drafted? It isn't that I have a negative opinion about them; not at all, I love that we have legions of killing machines at our disposal. But, I always have a hard time rationalizing why I should be outwardly effusive with my praise of them.

So, sorry if this offends, it just doesn't add up.

None of us were drafted, and that is why you should be thankful. If it werent for us that volunteered, no matter what the circumstance was, there would be a draft and everyone that has enjoyed the American way of life would actually understand and appreciate the freedoms that they enjoy daily. That is why, as you say, you should have an outwardly effusive with your praise to all that have served.

Let me play devil's advocate here: are you not compensated?

Also, what about this Marcus Aurelius quote? "Anything in any way beautiful derives its beauty from itself and asks nothing beyond itself. Praise is no part of it, for nothing is made worse or better by praise."

When I am forced - and I feel like I am - to offer praise to the military, I feel insulted. Adoration comes from within you. It doesn't have shit to do with how many people praise you. It comes from when you believe that you are doing something meaningful. Yet, I don't see that.

I don't see people who think they are doing something meaningful. I see people who borderline on elitist who constantly tell people "we do something you can't (or won't) do" and it irks me. I see it once a week in the restaurants I've worked where vets are looking for discounts and, occasionally, call me a liberal because I don't have any ... which is amusing because I am not the one looking for the handout.

It all seems so insincere.

[shel311]

Can't you be thankful and praise them because you want to, not because you're forced?

Seems like you're making your judgment on them mostly based on how others view them, instead of doing it on your own.

[trendon]

Can't you be thankful and praise them because you want to, not because you're forced?

Seems like you're making your judgment on them mostly based on how others view them, instead of doing it on your own.

You are pretty damn close to being right. I took a step back and looked at the military and I how I feel about them because of the judgement I made on how others view them.

[brwnbear]

Well lets just asy we all agree we need our military and we all greatly appreciate the sacrafices they make for our freedom, but we all disagree on how it's used and how money is spent in that department. fair enough. Drinks?

I like the fact we have the insanely powerful military that we do. However, and I always HAVE to ask this, why should I be thankful for servicemen? Were they drafted? It isn't that I have a negative opinion about them; not at all, I love that we have legions of killing machines at our disposal. But, I always have a hard time rationalizing why I should be outwardly effusive with my praise of them.

They chose to do this. Some of the time, yes, reluctantly as that was the best path for them at this time. I didn't go to the Air Force despite putting up a score so high that the recruiter came to my house because I didn't think it was the right choice for me. Looking back, it was the wrong choice; I should have gone. My life would be so much better (probably) if I went.

And what I find is that most of the comments made back to me when I say this is all about money. Money, money, money, money, and money; while enlisted and when a veteran ... usually from the same people who rebuke me when I claim that money is the most important thing in this world; they call me shallow and materialistic.

So, sorry if this offends, it just doesn't add up.

It a free country and you dont HAVE to be thankful of anything. And for that, you should be thankful.

[shel311]

Can't you be thankful and praise them because you want to, not because you're forced?

Seems like you're making your judgment on them mostly based on how others view them, instead of doing it on your own.

You are pretty damn close to being right. I took a step back and looked at the military and I how I feel about them because of the judgement I made on how others view them.

I'll take it

[sixpackdan101]

I understand exactly what Trendon is saying and am inclined to agree. I've thought about that exact same thing many times over and have come to the same conclusion. I also dont have a negative opinion towards them whatsoever, it's those few with a sense of entitlement (give me praise, preferential treatment, etc) that I take issue with.

[xLiQx]

Thank them for the exact reason you posted, they weren't drafted..instead they made the choice and SACRAFICE to allow you to stay at home and work, enjoy your life and everything about it, do we OWE them? No, if you don't think so, then you dont, but just think, if those brave souls don't make that choice, then you would be FORCED to via a draft...so I thinkt hat alone should make your selfish ass appreciate something for once instead of always argue. Simple enough.

[GeorgesGoons]

I like the fact we have the insanely powerful military that we do. However, and I always HAVE to ask this, why should I be thankful for servicemen? Were they drafted? It isn't that I have a negative opinion about them; not at all, I love that we have legions of killing machines at our disposal. But, I always have a hard time rationalizing why I should be outwardly effusive with my praise of them.

So, sorry if this offends, it just doesn't add up.

None of us were drafted, and that is why you should be thankful. If it werent for us that volunteered, no matter what the circumstance was, there would be a draft and everyone that has enjoyed the American way of life would actually understand and appreciate the freedoms that they enjoy daily. That is why, as you say, you should have an outwardly effusive with your praise to all that have served.

Let me play devil's advocate here: are you not compensated?

Yes, and poorly at that. As a brand new private I made $770 a month in 1994. After 18 years I make $4100 a month (around $60k with other compensations for the year). Had I got out after my first tour I could have made 60+ a year in 1998 in my old job (military intel dealing with Signal Intelligence). Now that I am a Unmanned Air Vehicle Operator I can get out making 70+ a year, and that isnt including my Per Diem for my time away from home when training units. Over the last 8 years I have been gone away from my family for half of it. Am I being compensated for what I do, I guess. But nowhere what I should be making had I moved up to Senior Management in a fortune 500 company.

[autiger730]

Let me ask a question of all of you who think we would be unsafe if we didn't have people stationed all over the world, and cut spending in half. Who in the fuck even has the capacity to invade us or would have the balls with the fighting force we would have within our borders? Seriously. Answer that question.

[GeorgesGoons]

Let me ask a question of all of you who think we would be unsafe if we didn't have people stationed all over the world, and cut spending in half. Who in the fuck even has the capacity to invade us or would have the balls with the fighting force we would have within our borders? Seriously. Answer that question.

I don't think the question is which country would invade....nobody is that stupid. It's the radical idiots out there that would bring the fight to us, small groups of people that can blend in and cause mass chaos. Once again, I would rather be over seas fighting these asses than allowing even 3 radicals to get in our borders and attack innocent people. If we have to be overseas as a target of opportunity for these idiots then I am sure none of my brothers will have an issue letting them see if there really is 72 virgins waiting on the other side.

[trendon]

Thank them for the exact reason you posted, they weren't drafted..instead they made the choice and SACRAFICE to allow you to stay at home and work, enjoy your life and everything about it, do we OWE them? No, if you don't think so, then you dont, but just think, if those brave souls don't make that choice, then you would be FORCED to via a draft...so I thinkt hat alone should make your selfish ass appreciate something for once instead of always argue. Simple enough.

See what I mean?

Let me say it this way: soldiers are more likely to take away my freedoms than protect them. So, stop using "FREEDOM!" as the rallying cry.

There are people that think soldiers are murderers. I don't think so. In fact, I get a kick out of how powerful our military is.

There are people that don't understand how the soldier is a tool for rich men. I do and I empathize as I fight my own "war" domestically with true "enemies of freedom" aka Congress.

But, freedom? Yeah, no. They don't do shit about that and that isn't a knock on them. Not their job. You want people who protect freedoms? It is me, you, your mom, your neighbor, etc etc. Stop it with that phrase.

[OracleHCR]

Yeah. And just let Iran get the bomb. The US and USSR didn't use nuclear weapons against each other because of mutual assured destruction. Those fuckers don't care anything about MAD. They can't wait to get to Allah and want to take your ass with them. If they get close to getting it you can rest assured that Israel will bomb the fuck out them and what kind of trouble would we have then. Especially if we didn't have anyone around to back them because we were watching our own back yard like you want to.
Putin is no friend to us. North Korea is definitely an enemy. Hugo Chavez said he wants to bring us to our knees. So yeah. Let's cut spending.

[trendon]

Yeah. And just let Iran get the bomb. The US and USSR didn't use nuclear weapons against each other because of mutual assured destruction. Those fuckers don't care anything about MAD. They can't wait to get to Allah and want to take your ass with them. If they get close to getting it you can rest assured that Israel will bomb the fuck out them and what kind of trouble would we have then. Especially if we didn't have anyone around to back them because we were watching our own back yard like you want to.
Putin is no friend to us. North Korea is definitely an enemy. Hugo Chavez said he wants to bring us to our knees. So yeah. Let's cut spending.

To me, those are all hypotheticals so I am hesitant to agree with you. But, on the other hand, we have been around for almost 240 years, so defense spending has worked and the only two substantial foreign acts of aggression on American soil were sneak attacks.

[OracleHCR]

They are hypotheticals. But they aren't outlandish. All it takes is one nuke in NYC and we wouldn't have Trendon around to keep us in line.
You really have to excuse me though. I've been listening to Vince Flynn's Mitch Rapp series for the past couple weeks and this is striking a nerve.

[LetsGoPeay]

Kind of off topic but sort of on....

My neighbor and I were talking about this the other day. It seems like since 9/11 we've been inundated with "America, Fuck Yeah!" type messages at every turn. I have no problem with this. I count myself lucky to live here and love my country despite its numerous flaws. But it seems like as our economy goes to shit and we find ourselves encumbered in seemingly endless conflicts, we're being encouraged to almost worship our country at every turn. It seems like every public event now has to start with a "Tribute to America". I feel like at times I'm being propogandized to. I can't help but think that this isn't just coincedence. Is this perceived push to love America (in my eyes) being mandated from above? If so, is it because we're worse off than we the public are being allowed to know and our loyalty is being nurtured? Just some of my thoughts. Anybody else got anything?

[xLiQx]

Trendon, I barely know you, but I already know you live in a bubble, I know you are smart, and I am sure you think are you so much more educated than the rest of us...but in fact you lack common sense. You are given a freedom that soldiers now...in the past, and in the future have fought for...they fight for our freedom, IF it wasn't for our military and the people who DECIDE to enroll, we wouldn't have as strong as military, and in the past, we wouldn't be where we are today. Go live in some other countries that dont' have the rights and freedoms we have. Is it perfect? NOT at all, but I love the US...and did before 9/11....We live great lifes here, and it could always be ALOT worse.

[autiger730]

Let me ask a question of all of you who think we would be unsafe if we didn't have people stationed all over the world, and cut spending in half. Who in the fuck even has the capacity to invade us or would have the balls with the fighting force we would have within our borders? Seriously. Answer that question.

I don't think the question is which country would invade....nobody is that stupid. It's the radical idiots out there that would bring the fight to us, small groups of people that can blend in and cause mass chaos. Once again, I would rather be over seas fighting these asses than allowing even 3 radicals to get in our borders and attack innocent people. If we have to be overseas as a target of opportunity for these idiots then I am sure none of my brothers will have an issue letting them see if there really is 72 virgins waiting on the other side.

Us being "over there" isn't stopping anyone from getting on a plane.

Yeah. And just let Iran get the bomb. The US and USSR didn't use nuclear weapons against each other because of mutual assured destruction. Those fuckers don't care anything about MAD. They can't wait to get to Allah and want to take your ass with them. If they get close to getting it you can rest assured that Israel will bomb the fuck out them and what kind of trouble would we have then. Especially if we didn't have anyone around to back them because we were watching our own back yard like you want to.
Putin is no friend to us. North Korea is definitely an enemy. Hugo Chavez said he wants to bring us to our knees. So yeah. Let's cut spending.

And exactly what are we doing to deal with each of these specific threats? Hint "Fighting cave dwellers in Afghanistan and common street hoodlums in Iraq" is not the correct answer.

Hugo Chavez can lick my balls. We could kill him at a moments notice if need be. North Korea is the closest thing WE have to a real international threat, yet they struggle to get a missile to even make it to the ocean. With Kim Jong crazy motherfucker dead, I'm willing to bet we could talk them down now. As for Iran, Israel can more than handle them or any of the other numbskulls in that region.

[autiger730]

They are hypotheticals. But they aren't outlandish. All it takes is one nuke in NYC and we wouldn't have Trendon around to keep us in line.
You really have to excuse me though. I've been listening to Vince Flynn's Mitch Rapp series for the past couple weeks and this is striking a nerve.

How exactly would they get said nuke to NYC? How many countries have a missile capable of reaching NYC?