4 down, 46 to go

[GT25Ump]

Does reading this entire thread, and all of it's religious overtones, get me out of going to church this sunday? I really think I may have got more out of this, then I will from my pastor's sermon!

[dakshdar]

My mistake, I meant to say it is the largest religion but thanks for being Johnny on the spot! But to start quaoting poll results is a joke. If poll results were true John Kerry would be president.

Gallup is a pretty good poll program. They've been around a long time, they're well respected, and they cover pretty much every area of social interest (so they're not overly interested in just religion or something like that). Granted, when you do choose a selection size for the poll, there is always the risk of not getting a good enough cross-section.

I'd wager to say that this poll is at least as accurate as the stories in the Bible.

Our president is a pussy.

We just spent 8 years being "led" by a certified retard. A man that couldn't formulate a full sentence for himself, likely the result of the fact that he couldn't finish a single thought in his head. He allowed the country to fall into the worst economic condition in decades and he falsely led this country into a military conflict over non-existent weapons of mass destruction based on military "intelligence" that was later found to have been intentionally manufactured for just that purpose. I really hope you don't prefer our last President who intentionally avoided his military enlistment obligations (what a pussy), abused illegal narcotics (what a pussy), and was a raging alcoholic before entering politics (what a pussy).

[packsyD22]

I do not mean to beat down anyones religion....I was raised in the Catholic church until I was 12 years old then my parents simply asked me if I cared to continue or not and my choice at a young age was no. I dated a girl for four years (18-22) who was a Catholic girl and was at church every Sunday and I went with her for four years and I sat there and listened and took it for what it was.

All I was asking is this thread was about legalizing gay marriage and has turned into something different about everyones opinion on religion. Sorry if I have offended anyone but I was just trying to stay on topic. everyone knows one of the beautiful things in America is the separation of church and state but we have totally separated ourselves from that via this thread.

I certainly am no atheist as someone stated earlier.....I am a baptized Catholic but I am more agnostic than anything.....so don't make assumptions about me as I have not assumed any on anyone else here. Again though another thing that bothers me about devout religious people....always passing judgement on someone before they even get to know them......... I just don't think peoples theory of evolution and dinosaurs have anything to do with gay marriage that's why I commented after BigMike stated this thread was turning into a funny kind of joke.

[jeffdaddy]

im not going to quote anybody's stuff, all Im going to say is my opinion.

I hope marriage stays as a union between man and woman. I also hope people cherish that more than they have been in the last 40 years or so

[vicktim7]

RIP Trendon
*pours out a little anti-oxidant rich green tea for my homie*

and peay, it didn't even cross my mind, but how right you are. although, this might be enough to resurrect him.

[Matt90210]

I am STILL stunned that religion is running this argument.

We have a book, written by someone about what a fictional character thinks is "right" and "wrong." This book is held in such high regards that it has been in every hotel room I have ever stayed in, yet it encourages its believers to discriminate and strip away the rights of certain human beings. Wow, well done my friends. If two gay people got married it wouldn't harm you a bit and you probably wouldn't even know about it, but let me sin in a million different ways that probably DO affect another person, as long as homosexuals can't get married.

Gay marriage has nothing against you; it is not evil and you won't go to "hell" for getting over yourself. I promise.

[fsupenguin]

I am STILL stunned that religion is running this argument.

We have a book, written by someone about what a fictional character thinks is "right" and "wrong." This book is held in such high regards that it has been in every hotel room I have ever stayed in, yet it encourages its believers to discriminate and strip away the rights of certain human beings. Wow, well done my friends. If two gay people got married it wouldn't harm you a bit and you probably wouldn't even know about it, but let me sin in a million different ways that probably DO affect another person, as long as homosexuals can't get married.

Gay marriage has nothing against you; it is not evil and you won't go to "hell" for getting over yourself. I promise.

Have you read one word of any of my posts? Your logic only works if there were no God, and lets not even get started about that, but the even bigger hole in your train of though is how you seem to know what the Bible tells people to do yet have no concept at all of its message. For you to say that it tells people to discriminate and strip away the rights of anyone at all, and then your phrase about other sin not mattering and that we are instead making a massive issue about the definition of what marriage is will all love an respect one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard. I'm not trying to put you down here at all, and if this offends you understand that is not my intent. You need to have the integrity to read at least the entire new testament for yourself before you pass such judgment on this book.

[GeorgesGoons]

Our president is a pussy.

We just spent 8 years being "led" by a certified retard. A man that couldn't formulate a full sentence for himself, likely the result of the fact that he couldn't finish a single thought in his head. He allowed the country to fall into the worst economic condition in decades and he falsely led this country into a military conflict over non-existent weapons of mass destruction based on military "intelligence" that was later found to have been intentionally manufactured for just that purpose. I really hope you don't prefer our last President who intentionally avoided his military enlistment obligations (what a pussy), abused illegal narcotics (what a pussy), and was a raging alcoholic before entering politics (what a pussy).

1. The worst economic times are still to come with all this bail out money being handed out, just my opinion.

2. You had to believe that Sadam had them at the time because he kept stone walling the UN envoy. Every time the UN had intel about where they were Sadam wouldnt let them in. So you had to believe the "intelligence."

3. I believe President Bush did serve, all be it the Air National Guard, and the current President never did (what a pussy), from ABC News.... In his 1996 memoir, "Dreams From My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance," Obama wrote candidly about his drug use: "Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it. Not smack, though," (what a pussy huh).

You dont have to like President Bush but dont try to paint a bad picture when you dont know what you are talking about.

[sunspotiens]

You dont have to like President Bush but dont try to paint a bad picture when you dont know what you are talking about.

*lol* Someone clearly missed the memo....that picture has BEEN painted my friend. Its been in the Louvre for about 3 years now.

http://www.louvre.fr/llv/commun/home.jsp?bmLocale=en

[vicktim7]

I am STILL stunned that religion is running this argument.

We have a book, written by someone about what a fictional character thinks is "right" and "wrong." This book is held in such high regards that it has been in every hotel room I have ever stayed in, yet it encourages its believers to discriminate and strip away the rights of certain human beings. Wow, well done my friends. If two gay people got married it wouldn't harm you a bit and you probably wouldn't even know about it, but let me sin in a million different ways that probably DO affect another person, as long as homosexuals can't get married.

Gay marriage has nothing against you; it is not evil and you won't go to "hell" for getting over yourself. I promise.

sources outside the bible confirm the person that was Jesus. not sure where you're "fictional character" stuff comes from. josephus clearly referenced Christ, and others, tacitus and pliny the younger to name a few, referenced christians and their beliefs as early as the beginning of the second century. you also can't discount the new testament either because it contains quite a bit of history, especially that of the early christian movement.

and you're exactly right to call out those who single out homosexuality while turning their noses at other issues. it's not some unpardonable thing. for too long the church has spoken out loudly about some issues while quietly ignoring others, to her detriment sadly.

[dakshdar]

1. The worst economic times are still to come with all this bail out money being handed out, just my opinion.

2. You had to believe that Sadam had them at the time because he kept stone walling the UN envoy. Every time the UN had intel about where they were Sadam wouldnt let them in. So you had to believe the "intelligence."

3. I believe President Bush did serve, all be it the Air National Guard, and the current President never did (what a pussy), from ABC News.... In his 1996 memoir, "Dreams From My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance," Obama wrote candidly about his drug use: "Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it. Not smack, though," (what a pussy huh).

You dont have to like President Bush but dont try to paint a bad picture when you dont know what you are talking about.

The bailout is necessary because of the actions of the Bush administration.

The WMDs were out and out lies which has been stated several times by former members of the Bush administration.

Bush went AWOL from his service. He signed up to do something in a contract with the US government and then ran away from his duty. Yes, Obama never served in the military. But what's worse: not serving, or agreeing to a duty and then abandoning it?

And you're comparing drug and alcohol use by Obama as a high school teenager to use by a grown man in his 20s and 30s?

I don't need to paint a bad picture of Bush. He's done that well enough on his own. No President ever had a lower approval rating than George W. Bush.

[sammy33]

As AJ said, I guess at this point many pages ago, each new generation becomes more tolerant of certain issues in general (this being one). I take back my previous thoughts on marriage, as looking back over the issue I am not so sure that it will ever happen. Marriage has more of a religious foundation so I can see the thoughts behind things staying the way they are. Fine...I think at this point the real concern is with the climbing rates of divorce. For it to be viewed as such a "prestiged entitlement" and all.

I have nothing against those are deeply, or semi-deeply invested in whatever religion they may follow. If it helps them to become better people for it, than more power to them. As someone who is not, I know that you can also be a good person with the proper set of values and such. No matter what end people fall on, the big thing should be what they can do to make this world a better place for those on it and those in the future.

Civil unions will happen eventually. THAT I find weird that people would be against still. It is not marriage, but still is fair giving gay couples the same rights that straight couples get. Until research can show that not being straight is not biological (with studies leaning towards it being more of a biological), I can't see how can you punish them for something that is not their fault. I know there are other factors, but if ultimately research shows that you have no control, why should that limit things in your life?

The gay alliance is now in our schools and religious groups are dwindling.

And what happens when a gay couple wants a child. Well, then they adopt, and more and more children get raised in a dsyfunctional, non traditional home.

Those that are going to be religious are going to be. Yes, you're right that there are not as many groups in school as there probably should be, but the number of gay groups shouldn't matter. Just like everyone else, they need their sense of belonging as well. They are human just like everyone else.

Should not make a difference either. Though, I can definitely see the awkwardness that a child (peers and at home) and the same-sex parents would go through trying to explain things, does that really make them not qualified to raise a child? As long as the child is provided adequate care, has a socially acceptable code of ehtics/morals instilled, and can be supported emotionally by two loving parents, why should the gender of both parents matter? Straight couples raise both straight and gay kids who came out fine...I'm sure gay ones are just as capable of raising them in much the same manner.

[sixpackdan101]

can we please clone a gay man and let me adopt him? I guarantee he will be straight.

If only I werent against cloning...

[jsence2]

hey religious folks. which god is the real god? like which religion?

Your not asking questions Nick, you are trying to pick a fight.
I am sorry if anyone was offended by anything I said, but I do stand by my beliefs and I do my best with Gods help to live them out every day. My purpose is to never thump a Bible to beat something down someones though, but to serve others and do whatever I can to tell them about how much God does love them no matter who they are or what they have done and how He wants to have a personal relationship with you.

Amen to that, Pengy. It's about loving those you encounter no matter their faults or sins, and praying that they know the love that only the Lord our God can offer. I tell you what....if not for my faith, I don't know how I would have gotten through the past month. The only thing giving me solace right now is knowing that my uncle and my grandmother are seated at the table of God, and that I will someday see them again.

I too share your beliefs, when i see my grandfather again, i have a whole lot of questions for him. But i will say one thing, although i believe alot in God, i often wonder why my Wifes uncle cant enjoy what me and my wife have? He is a gay man. Because of scripture that was written along time ago? I believe in the bible, i believe in God, and i believe he should also be able to enjoy the same happiness me and my wife have. I guess thats part of the Bible i dont believe in, but im sure Jesus will forgive me for that.

Buckeye....ok, let's play Devil's advocate here. Let's say, "well I want him to be as happy as you and your wife." Ok....what about the man who loves little girls? Should he also be able to have the same happiness you have with your wife? What about the man who sleeps with hookers? Or the man who watches pornography every night? Should we not frown upon those things simply because God said thousands of years ago that we shouldn't do those things?

I know those are kind of extreme examples, but it goes to my point--when we start to compromise our beliefs then they stop being our beliefs. It IS hard to follow God's Word to the letter; and that is why He sent His son to pay for our screw-ups. But if we compromise on this, where does the line get drawn? How long will it be before we start saying, "well abortion is ok if it means the woman will be happy" ? I hope I'm making sense....nothing against your uncle-in-law, but if man wants to create civil unions, I will not approve of it, but I will accept it and recognize it as just that--man's creation. Marriage is a creation of the Lord, and on that, we cannot compromise.

[dakshdar]

Buckeye....ok, let's play Devil's advocate here. Let's say, "well I want him to be as happy as you and your wife." Ok....what about the man who loves little girls? Should he also be able to have the same happiness you have with your wife? What about the man who sleeps with hookers? Or the man who watches pornography every night? Should we not frown upon those things simply because God said thousands of years ago that we shouldn't do those things?

I can't believe someone went to the "man who loves little girls" argument.

Can you really say you don't comprehend the difference between a relationship between consenting adults and one between an adult and a child?

As far as the other arguments go: A man who sleeps with hookers is breaking the law. Now I somewhat question why two consenting adults are not allowed to agree upon a fair price for services rendered. We sell every other thing under the sun, so it seems rather odd that if someone wants to sell their body they can't, but so be it. However, there are no legal laws against being gay (unless you start breaking out ridiculous laws against anal sex next, and even then that only knocks the dudes out of the equation).

And porn (most types at least) isn't illegal either.

So basically you're comparing allowing for the happiness of two law-abiding citizens (a gay couple) with a pedophile (criminal), someone that sleeps with hookers (criminal), and your average every day person (porn viewer of the legal variety). This is the most confusing group of analogies ever.

[jsence2]

Does reading this entire thread, and all of it's religious overtones, get me out of going to church this sunday? I really think I may have got more out of this, then I will from my pastor's sermon!

It's Easter....you know better!

[jsence2]

dakshdar, that is because you are looking at it from the view of man.

I am looking at it from the viewpoint of the Lord, as I expect Buckeye to as he contemplates what I posted.

Legal or not, moral or not--they are ALL frowned upon by the Lord. The Lord said that sin is sin, there is no hierarchy when it comes to falling short of the Glory. Gay marriage is a sin, just like pornography, just like taking His name in vain, just like lying, just like stealing, adultery, etc. Being "legal" doesn't make it any less of a sin. It's "legal" to curse out the Lord and say you don't believe in Him, and worship something else. But it doesn't make it any less of a sin.

That is my point--at what point do we draw the line when it comes to bending God's rules? I know the analogy was kind of weird, but it was the best I could come up with along the same lines (sexual wrongs).

[jsence2]

im not going to quote anybody's stuff, all Im going to say is my opinion.

I hope marriage stays as a union between man and woman. I also hope people cherish that more than they have been in the last 40 years or so

I agree, Jeffdaddy. That is why my ex-fiance and I did NOT get married. We did not believe in divorce, and we did not KNOW if our marriage would last through the flaws in our relationship. So we did not risk it.

I honestly think all couples should have to go through pre-marital counseling before a pastor/minister/etc weds them. It weeds out a lot of "bad" marriages and problems that could lead to divorce. My church requires an 11-week course of it before they will marry you.

[jsence2]

Our president is a pussy.

We just spent 8 years being "led" by a certified retard. A man that couldn't formulate a full sentence for himself, likely the result of the fact that he couldn't finish a single thought in his head. He allowed the country to fall into the worst economic condition in decades and he falsely led this country into a military conflict over non-existent weapons of mass destruction based on military "intelligence" that was later found to have been intentionally manufactured for just that purpose. I really hope you don't prefer our last President who intentionally avoided his military enlistment obligations (what a pussy), abused illegal narcotics (what a pussy), and was a raging alcoholic before entering politics (what a pussy).

1. The worst economic times are still to come with all this bail out money being handed out, just my opinion.

2. You had to believe that Sadam had them at the time because he kept stone walling the UN envoy. Every time the UN had intel about where they were Sadam wouldnt let them in. So you had to believe the "intelligence."

3. I believe President Bush did serve, all be it the Air National Guard, and the current President never did (what a pussy), from ABC News.... In his 1996 memoir, "Dreams From My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance," Obama wrote candidly about his drug use: "Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it. Not smack, though," (what a pussy huh).

You dont have to like President Bush but dont try to paint a bad picture when you dont know what you are talking about.

1) The man responsible for the majority of that money given out so far? Dubya.

2) Bush was given made-up intel and did not CARE if it was correct or not. Neither did Cheney--the man who REALLY got us into this war, trust me.

3) The current president was smart enough that he went to college and made something of himself, and worked hard. Dubya rode his daddy's coattails through life, got a C at Yale (and I'm guessing he had "help" with that one), and RAN AWAY from his commitment. No, Obama didn't join the service--but he also hasn't run away from things he's agreed to do.

As for the last line.....Republicans do that every day. They did it the entire time Obama was running for office. Should we dig up some Youtube videos where we were all told by many people about how Obama was a "muslim"?

[dakshdar]

dakshdar, that is because you are looking at it from the view of man.

I am looking at it from the viewpoint of the Lord, as I expect Buckeye to as he contemplates what I posted.

Legal or not, moral or not--they are ALL frowned upon by the Lord. The Lord said that sin is sin, there is no hierarchy when it comes to falling short of the Glory. Gay marriage is a sin, just like pornography, just like taking His name in vain, just like lying, just like stealing, adultery, etc. Being "legal" doesn't make it any less of a sin. It's "legal" to curse out the Lord and say you don't believe in Him, and worship something else. But it doesn't make it any less of a sin.

That is my point--at what point do we draw the line when it comes to bending God's rules? I know the analogy was kind of weird, but it was the best I could come up with along the same lines (sexual wrongs).

I can agree that they're all the same from a religious standpoint, but I'm really confused how we can apply religion to social/legal/civil matters so freely when we're not dealing with people that are all of the same religion. If we were all Christian (or any single religion) then I'd see no problem with saying "This is right and this is wrong. It is in the book, look it up."

It seems to stand in direct conflict of logic and reason to apply religious arguments and viewpoints to legal matters.