Politics and stuff

[dakshdar]

Hillary lost out to and endorsed Obama and we got Secretary of State Clinton. Would Secretary of State Sanders seem like such a bad thing for the next four years?

[Cnasty]

You guys and your revolution

This sounds like a Facebook thread

[DRWebs]

His run was over when he wasn't going to get the nomination. He's not running for president again - he turns 75 in a about a month and already would have been the oldest elected president this time around. He's not running on the verge of 80 even if there isn't a Democrat just running for re-election in 4 years.

However, while it will remain to be seen whether it is just talk, he has seemingly gotten Hillary to move his way some on College costs and college load debt refinance. And maybe, just maybe, his endorsement leads to his involvement on more important committees over the next 4 years (if Hillary wins) where he can have more impact than sticking to his guns now, bonking the election for Hillary, and trying to do something, anything with Trump in office. Isn't his greatest chance of 'revolution' now to get himself into the best position possible to still make a change while he is serving in Washington? It won't be a instant revolution toppling the system in a single day, but he can still set things on a path toward where he told people he wants to go. As a lost outsider with no support on either side (if he didn't endorse) he can't deliver diddly-squat.

Well said sir

[Cnasty]

Good to be on team Joe here.

You just earned yourself an extra day of no bonus sim.

[DRiccio21]

he has seemingly gotten Hillary to move his way some on College costs and college load debt refinance. And maybe, just maybe, his endorsement leads to his involvement on more important committees over the next 4 years (if Hillary wins)

Hillary would tell him he could live in the White House for his endorsement right now. the fact you think he is having or will have any impact on her policies is pretty freaking funny. did you read the basic premise of some of those emails? they think the guy is a cookoo bird wack job with a big backing.

the 1% people you always hear him bashing literally couldn't give 2 shits about bernie, as arrogant as thats sounds cause they know nothing he is saying matters. i hear it from the horses mouth. when i used to say 'yeah but he's at least starting a conversation' to those guys the reply would be 'oh, to be young again'.

Isn't his greatest chance of 'revolution' now to get himself into the best position possible to still make a change while he is serving in Washington?

his best chance at a revolution is to make the people believe his message is so strong that nothing could waver him from making the 'right' choice. that he is so firm in is stance that he is willing to do whatever it takes to show the american people his message had teeth. even if that meant going thru 4 years of pain, the pain will make his point even stronger over that time. to me thats the definition of a man... you do what is right regardless of the outcome. instead Bernie fans are questioning his motives, booing his decisions and dividing the party anyways. Trump is taking the lead and has a really good shot at winning so not only is he going to lose his chance to make true change, he's going to lose his reputation to some while at it.

[DRWebs]

he has seemingly gotten Hillary to move his way some on College costs and college load debt refinance. And maybe, just maybe, his endorsement leads to his involvement on more important committees over the next 4 years (if Hillary wins)

Hillary would tell him he could live in the White House for his endorsement right now. the fact you think he is having or will have any impact on her policies is pretty freaking funny. did you read the basic premise of some of those emails? they think the guy is a cookoo bird wack job with a big backing.

the 1% people you always hear him bashing literally couldn't give 2 shits about bernie, as arrogant as thats sounds cause they know nothing he is saying matters.

Probably true as well, you got me flipping easier than Bernie!

[dakshdar]

Should he care about what his reputation is at the very end, or should he care that he always took the path to get the most good done when presented with each fork in the road?

He should stick to his message just to show how resolute and tough he is even if it means losing all ability to sway the future in any way whatsoever toward the people following him?

[Cnasty]

I would choose the path that gets more done.

Fuck a reputation if you aren't a selfless person and took one for the team to get as far as you possibly can for the change.

Seems like a terribly ridiculous business move to push your agenda by shutting out one of the biggest political parties in the world. You more than anyone would under stand smart business moves I would think and eating your pride at times to do what's in the best interest of an agenda or organization.

We won't agree on this and you said you see my side and such and that's all I can ask for.

[shel311]

You guys and your revolution

This sounds like a Facebook thread

Don't make me pull up old posts where you bought in and mentioned the revolution.

[DRiccio21]

Should he care about what his reputation is at the very end, or should he care that he always took the path to get the most good done when presented with each fork in the road?

He should stick to his message just to show how resolute and tough he is even if it means losing all ability to sway the future in any way whatsoever toward the people following him?

nothing to do with his personal reputation... its the reputation of his message i'm talking about

[Cnasty]

No doubt I said it in fun but to keep mentioning it like he was Katniss Everdeen is hilarious.

You all are acting so surprised the guy is making all the right moves from a business standpoint to continue to stay in the game as long as that old heart will let him to continue to revolutionize!!!

[dakshdar]

Should he care about what his reputation is at the very end, or should he care that he always took the path to get the most good done when presented with each fork in the road?

He should stick to his message just to show how resolute and tough he is even if it means losing all ability to sway the future in any way whatsoever toward the people following him?

nothing to do with his personal reputation... its the reputation of his message i'm talking about

Gotcha.

I guess if his supporters will only accept revolution in the form of an overnight upheaval of the system, then they'd be severely disappointed. If they see that the journey of a thousand miles starts with one step, then I think they could see this as another step in the right direction vs a lateral step that gets them nowhere and may leave them at a dead end.

[DRiccio21]

as soon as the election is over, nobody is listening to or talking to Bernie again. he'll be another guy

this is a business transaction. they are using bernie for his supporters, whispering all sorts of promises to him and then its business as normal regardless of who wins. once the election ends, he has no leverage. as shitty as that sounds, thats reality. i think the emails prove that to be true.

if he wanted to be heard he had to do something radical. he didn't, he was another politician. can we at least agree on that?

[dakshdar]

I guess we'll see. If Clinton wins I think we'll see continued influence from him and his platform. If he built it up this much and it goes no where after this, that's a major failure. Then again, I think him sticking to being radical now would insure that his plans would go nowhere. He's taking the path with a chance, slim as it may be.

[DRiccio21]

I guess we'll see. If Clinton wins I think we'll see continued influence from him and his platform. If he built it up this much and it goes no where after this, that's a major failure. Then again, I think him sticking to being radical now would insure that his plans would go nowhere. He's taking the path with a chance, slim as it may be.

i'm not disagreeing with you in terms of his chances of enacting change in policy. but i never thought he would have any impact in policy regardless (unless of course he won), but clearly going against her would ensure that he had no voice.

i'm talking enacting change in public mentalities. he has an swell of followers because the people finally felt they had a voice (as jaded as their beliefs might have been, thats a different debate)... the power of the masses can force change thru disruption (AKA a REVOLUTION). if Bernie was still holding his ground, the entire Dem Convention would be a 10 hour 'Bernie' chant. the world, at that point, has to listen. they have to give him a voice. instead, he caved, now the message is divided and nobody will give a shit in 6 months once the election is over.

not that this needs to be said, but i enjoy the civilized back and forth. its fun

[Cnasty]

I don't think we can decisively say it's over and the future is written like you are saying it to be.

Just like I can't sit here and say the path he is taking now will be successful.

I don't think he is a sham as shel is saying as I truly believe he stood for his agenda, didn't take funds like other candidates and built a ground up movement that will be talked about in elections to come.

I don't think it's a clear lne as sham vs a non-sham in looking at what options he had in front of him and utilizing the option that will keep him relevant and with a chance to push agenda.

Now I agree that chance is slim but I personally think he made the right decision and I would go out on a limb and say we have all said things one way but have had to eat face for the greater good or larger group to get to an over arching agenda item.

If not, maybe I'm just a sham lol

[DRiccio21]

all fair points... and i'm sure i've said things and then had to sacrifice for the greater good.

but if it came down to things i have unwavering conviction on... things like love, equality, family, growth... you'd have to take me out on a stretcher before i would compromise.

i was a believer that Bernie had that type of unwavering conviction to this cause. now i'm not so sure. and if i'm not sure then i'm sure others aren't sure and that dillutes the overall message.

i'm done for tonight, going to dinner. fun talks! hold it down shel!

[ReignOnU]

My thoughts on Bernie aside... if this is really about making the change that his supporters want to see, I think the right path is to go independent and fight. As many have said in the past months, this isn't going to happen overnight. Maybe the right first step is to fight this battle to the bitter end and lose. But in that battle, open the eyes of more and more people. We know that the momentum tends to swing back and forth. If Trump is half as bad as Dems make him out to be, then there is a major path paved for someone to be the anti-Hillary and the next Bernie. (I don't know the liberal side well enough to know who that might be in 4yrs)

I honestly believe that Sanders needs to die on this hill or all of this was wasted effort and a massive step backwards. He's spitting in the face of the people that thought he was serious about change.

[shel311]

I was excited to see Bill Clinton speak...and it's the most boring speech I've seen from both conventions.

[The_Niddler]

I was excited to see Bill Clinton speak...and it's the most boring speech I've seen from both conventions.

Not sure I give a shit about how he and Hillary met and got married and he married his best friend, yet had to cheat on her....etc., etc. etc.