COVID-19

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DRWebs
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Re: COVID-19

Post by DRWebs »

Spoiler!
Trump said his “bold” decision has since been vindicated, that it has “saved a lot of lives” and that because of his decision “that’s why we have a very small number of people that we have to really worry about.”

Nuzzo, the senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, said there’s no evidence, at least, that the travel restrictions have saved lives or reduced the number of cases in the U.S.

“We have not seen any evidence that shows the travel restrictions stopped or slowed down transmission of the virus that causes COVID-19,” Nuzzo told us via email. “It is possible that it did, but there is no evidence to show this. Rather there are a number of reasons to believe that this may very well not be the case.”

Chiefly, she said, that’s because “we weren’t seriously looking for cases in the US.”

“If you had mild infection, you were not tested,” Nuzzo said. “If you had viral pneumonia not requiring oxygen but had not been to Wuhan, you wouldn’t have been tested.”

“Prior to the US travel restrictions, China began suspending outbound flights,” Nuzzo said. “Airlines also began canceling flights due to low travel volume. Then, the US implemented travel restrictions, which further reduced travel from China. The exception was Americans who were returning home from China. These folks were subject to quarantine upon return. A number of cases were found among these individuals. If you only test travelers from China and you greatly reduce the number of travelers coming from China, then you would be likely to not find many cases.

“But it doesn’t mean the virus hadn’t entered the US prior to travel restrictions,” Nuzzo said, as data now suggests occurred in Washington state.

Also, she said other countries, including Japan, Singapore and Korea, had a significant number of coronavirus cases, but they weren’t subject to travel restrictions. The U.S. “would likely not have picked it up” if travelers coming to the U.S. from those countries “because we weren’t using these other countries as criteria for testing.”

A modeling study published in Science magazine on March 6, “The effect of travel restrictions on the spread of the 2019 novel coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak,” concluded that, “In areas affected by the 2019 novel coronavirus (COVID-19), travel restrictions will only modestly impact the spread of the outbreak,” according to a press release for the study.

“Based on the study’s results, the authors say the greatest benefit to mitigating the epidemic will come from public health interventions and behavioral changes that achieve a considerable reduction in the disease transmissibility – factors like early detection, isolation, and handwashing,” according to the press release.

The authors concluded that travel restrictions introduced by the Chinese government in Wuhan in Jan. 23 and the halting of airline flights to and from China starting in early February at first slowed the spread of the disease to the rest of the world. Even still, a large number of individuals exposed to the virus had been traveling internationally without being detected and, the authors note, the number of imported cases around the world went up in a matter of weeks
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Re: COVID-19

Post by GeorgesGoons »

shel311 wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:34 am
GeorgesGoons wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:09 am You know all these congressman and senators could have easily done something at that time as well. But impeachment was more important.
You know he's done a shitty job when your best way to defend him is to say, "Yea, well everyone else did a shitty job too." :lol:
No, it's pointing out the hypocrisy of Washington. Especially when it is coming from people that could have done something (congressmen and senators).
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Re: COVID-19

Post by ReignOnU »

The idea that this would be much different under another president is pretty naive. It's always easy to judge in hindsight.

Many pages back I gave several examples of how it's clear that his response wasn't "do nothing."

As for a different president, you could hypothesize a lot of stuff. Certainly the communication would be better and the message would be better. There wouldn't be an ego stroke every 2-3 daylight hours. (Side note - how much is the media to blame in creating/feeding his BS by being incredibly biased?) But let's say we had Hillary instead. The obvious theory is that everything would be great because the virus would just kill itself randomly.

Would she have accepted faulty/poor tests and relied on WHO assistance, which means we'd like wipe through those very quickly? If she was given the same direction from the CDC, I assume she would have heeded their advice as well and opted to build our own. They'd still have failed. Our timeline would still be the same. What would the economy look like? (does it matter to you?) The premise that the lack of testing is on Trump is solely based on the idea that the person at the top is ultimately responsible. But the reality is, the top person is most likely to depend on those below him to deliver the best information possible. It was the CDC that drove that decision. It was the CDC/FDA interaction that drove other delays. That's all bureaucracy... or BS for short. The timeline doesn't necessarily change. The counter to could be that the collaboration between Labcorp and Quest doesn't happen, leading to pathetically long response. Our accelerated testing process has been pretty strong relative to most other countries.

You can argue that she'd have been more aggressive with social distancing/other direction. I think that's reasonable and it would have worked out better in terms of response. With that said, I'm not sure how the duration and recovery of the action would play out. (don't think we're remotely close to knowing how this is going to go right now... long game to go). But I also understand why Trump and the team have taken the approach that they've taken. Making hardline rules on 3/1 for NY aren't necessarily the best decision for Missouri. Again, we don't know the background, but we know that he was discussing action privately with governors. The way our government hierarchy is designed, it's reasonable to say that "X" is the base level guideline for everyone across the board and it's up to you to enact "Y" that exceeds it.

In the end, it's always going to be something. Calling it TDS is a lazy cop out, but there is something to it. The guy is an egomaniac and highly unlikable, but the endless amount of blaming, hate and delusion from opposition is also out of control... to the point that a lot of what I see is completely irrational. I frequently see comments that make me wonder if anyone has even a remote idea of how our government functions, how social and economic impacts feed each other, how a business operates, or how an economy functions in general at either a macro or micro level.
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Re: COVID-19

Post by ReignOnU »

"Trump says" is the NDL equivalent of "Nick says."

While it's embarrassing to say this about our president, it's not like we didn't know this from the time he was elected. You can go back to the 2016 election thread and see our comments in the first 3-4 pages. Nothing has changed, his BS has only been amplified by his relationship with the media and his political opponents.
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Re: COVID-19

Post by nick »

DRWebs wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:25 am Based on your post, sounds like gloves and time out of the room required for that stuff Nick?
Ya I don’t follow either. But if you put oxivir in water it’s nothing.

Now if you spray it directly on your hand..
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Re: COVID-19

Post by nick »

ReignOnU wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:56 am "Trump says" is the NDL equivalent of "Nick says."

While it's embarrassing to say this about our president, it's not like we didn't know this from the time he was elected. You can go back to the 2016 election thread and see our comments in the first 3-4 pages. Nothing has changed, his BS has only been amplified by his relationship with the media and his political opponents.
Damn I am US President
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Cnasty »

I always love when Reign comes in and tries to show us how he is smarter and wiser than all of us with his own assumptions and takes on things.

Don't ever change my friend.
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Re: COVID-19

Post by The_Niddler »

GeorgesGoons wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:39 am https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump ... -id=242252
What's True

During a Feb. 28, 2020, campaign rally in South Carolina, President Donald Trump likened the Democrats' criticism of his administration's response to the new coronavirus outbreak to their efforts to impeach him, saying "this is their new hoax." During the speech he also seemed to downplay the severity of the outbreak, comparing it to the common flu.

What's False

Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax.
But believe what you want because you don't like him.
During the speech he also seemed to downplay the severity of the outbreak, comparing it to the common flu.
I didn't watch the rally so I don't know what was said on this part. If you can find the transcript post it here so we can get a full picture. But the haters keep referring back to the "Hoax" piece and it is untrue. Downplaying something as a common cold does not imply it being a "hoax" but that is what you and everyone else wants to lean on.

How many fucking times do I need to respond and say that I understand he did not call the virus itself a hoax.
He was talking about the Democrats and saying the hoax was their next move. It was something they were doing to mess with him.
But those that support him and have his head up his ass, won't read the rest of the verbiage and just get what they want out of what was wrote.
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Re: COVID-19

Post by GeorgesGoons »

The_Niddler wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:32 am
GeorgesGoons wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:39 am https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump ... -id=242252
What's True

During a Feb. 28, 2020, campaign rally in South Carolina, President Donald Trump likened the Democrats' criticism of his administration's response to the new coronavirus outbreak to their efforts to impeach him, saying "this is their new hoax." During the speech he also seemed to downplay the severity of the outbreak, comparing it to the common flu.

What's False

Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax.
But believe what you want because you don't like him.
During the speech he also seemed to downplay the severity of the outbreak, comparing it to the common flu.
I didn't watch the rally so I don't know what was said on this part. If you can find the transcript post it here so we can get a full picture. But the haters keep referring back to the "Hoax" piece and it is untrue. Downplaying something as a common cold does not imply it being a "hoax" but that is what you and everyone else wants to lean on.

How many fucking times do I need to respond and say that I understand he did not call the virus itself a hoax.
He was talking about the Democrats and saying the hoax was their next move. It was something they were doing to mess with him.
But those that support him and have his head up his ass, won't read the rest of the verbiage and just get what they want out of what was wrote.
You should probably take a seat and drink some water brother. You don't see me throwing a hissy fit because you throw all his supporters in one bucket and say we have our heads up his ass. Just breathe it out.....
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Re: COVID-19

Post by GeorgesGoons »

And trust me JD, this has affected me more than you could imagine. As of right now I am losing just over $3k a month due to this, and who knows how much more as I am not able to expand due to businesses not allowing visitors.

But as my Arabic speaking brothers love to say in Iraq, "Inshallah!" (Translates to God Willing). There is nothing I can do so there is no reason to get butt hurt over it. Life goes on, I have my health and my family. What else do I need?
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Re: COVID-19

Post by shel311 »

GeorgesGoons wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:00 am I have my health and my family. What else do I need?
About $3k a month
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Re: COVID-19

Post by GeorgesGoons »

shel311 wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:10 am
GeorgesGoons wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:00 am I have my health and my family. What else do I need?
About $3k a month
Money is nice. But not the be all end all. Being away from family as much as I have I appreciate and value the time I have every day with them. Now if this affects OOTP that is where I draw the line :lol:
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Re: COVID-19

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shel311 wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:10 am
GeorgesGoons wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:00 am I have my health and my family. What else do I need?
About $3k a month
I will say that had I not retired from the Army I have no clue how I would make it day to day
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Re: COVID-19

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Cnasty wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:31 am I always love when Reign comes in and tries to show us how he is smarter and wiser than all of us with his own assumptions and takes on things.

Don't ever change my friend.
It's not about being smarter/wiser. I apologize if that's how it comes across. I don't believe that I assumed anything crazy, but feel free to correct me if I did. I try to do my best to cut out the BS, whether it be from Trump's mouth, the media or the other posts here (I generally ignore Nick for instance.. not being a dick, but I think the slant there has been on-going and obvious).

It's obvious that you take issue with the objectivity, hence the smarmy response. But that's been your M.O. regarding any objectivity about Trump for years. If anyone attempts to explain why he's not the big, evil villain that you make him out to be, you lash out that they are just Trump defenders, they are blinded with love for him, etc. It's no different than the other side that claims TDS over and over.

Ultimately, it's an open forum and you can respond how you want. I'm not the guy that's going to read your post and reply with "lol, TDS" and move on. I'm not going to parrot articles that have a clear slant and I'm usually not one to paint pictures with a broad brush. While your pattern is to downplay any attempt to support Trump, I don't by any stretch think that you're dumb, full of "TDS," etc. What I do think is that you're highly intelligent (as are others) and fully capable of being objective, but for some reason you don't. It's kind of fascinating for me and why I keep up with the election thread and this thread. I can count on 1 hand the number of people on our forum that I've seen try to look at things right down the middle (or as close to it as their worldview would allow).

In the end, I'm going to continue to try to be objective and offer different viewpoints, whether it's contrary to something you post or someone like George. In most cases, it's going to align opposite of you, because this board is slanted on that side and my worldview more closely aligns to the opposite opinion on certain things. As for you what your responses will be... I guess that's TBD. I'd love to see thoughtful, objective responses.
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Re: COVID-19

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ReignOnU wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:16 am I can count on 1 hand the number of people on our forum that I've seen try to look at things right down the middle
Trying to figure out if I made the cut:

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Re: COVID-19

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Essential Gang

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Re: COVID-19

Post by ReignOnU »

Can COVID exist on your beard? (I'd think so)

Do you wash it when you're done?

It takes me 2 days to get a 5 o'clock shadow, always curious about the manly man life.
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Re: COVID-19

Post by The_Niddler »

ReignOnU wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:29 am Can COVID exist on your beard? (I'd think so)

Do you wash it when you're done?

It takes me 2 days to get a 5 o'clock shadow, always curious about the manly man life.
Yes, it has been recommended that you shave it off if you have one and still have to be in contact with folks during this time.
We have a doctor at one of the local hospitals here who has a big ole beard and he is wearing this hat thing that looks like a bee keepers mask because he refuses to shave it off.
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Re: COVID-19

Post by GeorgesGoons »

ReignOnU wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:29 am Can COVID exist on your beard? (I'd think so)
Is it no different than skin? I'd hate to see everyone walking around in a hazmat suit
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Re: COVID-19

Post by ReignOnU »

shel311 wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:20 am
ReignOnU wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:16 am I can count on 1 hand the number of people on our forum that I've seen try to look at things right down the middle
Trying to figure out if I made the cut:
Not that you need validation, but certainly. I haven't went back to look through post history, but I've thought for awhile that your posts have moved to being pretty well balanced, regardless of position. Quite a few of them have made me stop and think in more detail about certain topics.
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