COVID-19

[ReignOnU]

Yes sir reigny-poo your rags to riches story plus that noble prize in economics award is the perfect Hallmark movie idea

You are a insignificant piss ant just like myself in the big scheme of things.

I see we've reached the point where you have no facts or logic to speak to, so you just "REEEEEEEEEEEEE" very loudly. Ignorance is bliss.

[Crowes]

Hate to break it to you guys but 82% of the population in the US lives in urban areas. So the whole cost of living argument in rural areas is a joke you bought from big business propaganda. It's from a time that doesn't exist in this country anymore. Come join today's world and not the 60s and 70s world you like to call on in your fond memories to hinder progress....

Except... you don't have any idea what that 82% number that you're quote represents. The 82% is "urbanized area," which is the loosest definition of urban. To give you an idea of just how loose, below is a link to Cleveland and the surrounding area. The shaded colors show you the "urbanized area." Those areas are any section in which the population density meets a specific threshold, which isn't that large. None of what you're arguing holds any water using this as your source. As a point of reference, it was about 55% 100 years ago and 65% about 50 years ago. But it's not growing because of inner-city population density. In fact, it's the opposite. It's growing because suburban areas are expanding in density as people look to live just outside of the major cities. (again, see the map below that shows the urbanized areas well outside of the core city of Cleveland)

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/fi ... h_rec3.pdf

What does any of that have to do with anything? Does it not prove the point that population density is growing most everywhere thus driving up the cost of living and poverty rate that in turns requires the need for a higher minimum wage?

[Crowes]

Yes sir reigny-poo your rags to riches story plus that noble prize in economics award is the perfect Hallmark movie idea

You are a insignificant piss ant just like myself in the big scheme of things.

I see we've reached the point where you have no facts or logic to speak to, so you just "REEEEEEEEEEEEE" very loudly. Ignorance is bliss.

Pot meet kettle buddy. Ain't no one out of anyone's "class or element" here we are all degenerates posting on a message board 10 years after the league died.

[ReignOnU]

Hate to break it to you guys but 82% of the population in the US lives in urban areas. So the whole cost of living argument in rural areas is a joke you bought from big business propaganda. It's from a time that doesn't exist in this country anymore. Come join today's world and not the 60s and 70s world you like to call on in your fond memories to hinder progress....

Except... you don't have any idea what that 82% number that you're quote represents. The 82% is "urbanized area," which is the loosest definition of urban. To give you an idea of just how loose, below is a link to Cleveland and the surrounding area. The shaded colors show you the "urbanized area." Those areas are any section in which the population density meets a specific threshold, which isn't that large. None of what you're arguing holds any water using this as your source. As a point of reference, it was about 55% 100 years ago and 65% about 50 years ago. But it's not growing because of inner-city population density. In fact, it's the opposite. It's growing because suburban areas are expanding in density as people look to live just outside of the major cities. (again, see the map below that shows the urbanized areas well outside of the core city of Cleveland)

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/fi ... h_rec3.pdf

What does any of that have to do with anything? Does it not prove the point that population density is growing most everywhere thus driving up the cost of living and poverty rate that in turns requires the need for a higher minimum wage?

It does not. Reread where/how the growth is happening.

[ReignOnU]

Yes sir reigny-poo your rags to riches story plus that noble prize in economics award is the perfect Hallmark movie idea

You are a insignificant piss ant just like myself in the big scheme of things.

I see we've reached the point where you have no facts or logic to speak to, so you just "REEEEEEEEEEEEE" very loudly. Ignorance is bliss.

Pot meet kettle buddy. Ain't no one out of anyone's "class or element" here we are all degenerates posting on a message board 10 years after the league died.

I've given you multiple verifiable numbers/stats throughout. You've returned... nothing. I work in FP&A, I've spent countless hours studying wage rate impact and 20yrs in various levels of business. I have no idea what you do or have done, but your comments and lack of logic clearly point to you having little to no idea what you're talking about.

[Crowes]

Yes sir reigny-poo your rags to riches story plus that noble prize in economics award is the perfect Hallmark movie idea

You are a insignificant piss ant just like myself in the big scheme of things.

I see we've reached the point where you have no facts or logic to speak to, so you just "REEEEEEEEEEEEE" very loudly. Ignorance is bliss.

Pot meet kettle buddy. Ain't no one out of anyone's "class or element" here we are all degenerates posting on a message board 10 years after the league died.

I've given you multiple verifiable numbers/stats throughout. You've returned... nothing. I work in FP&A, I've spent countless hours studying wage rate impact and 20yrs in various levels of business. I have no idea what you do or have done, but your comments and lack of logic clearly point to you having little to no idea what you're talking about.

Yes you gave hand picked stats of one very specific scenario that's is supposed to quantify out to everyone. So in other words you've proved nothing

[nick]

You both make great points. Let’s wrap this up tho

[ReignOnU]

I've given you multiple verifiable numbers/stats throughout. You've returned... nothing. I work in FP&A, I've spent countless hours studying wage rate impact and 20yrs in various levels of business. I have no idea what you do or have done, but your comments and lack of logic clearly point to you having little to no idea what you're talking about.

Yes you gave hand picked stats of one very specific scenario that's is supposed to quantify out to everyone. So in other words you've proved nothing

Again, everything I've posted is easily verifiable. As for scenario, I've given info on tons of things, so I have no idea which you're referring to. But the only topic that I drove was my own experience.
- Burger flipper @ McDonald's = Not me
- $10 per hr min wage = Not me
- Suggesting others don't know the plight = Not me
- 82% of American's in "urban areas" = Not me

I guess that just goes with your M.O., say dumb shit, get exposed, change topic to different dumb shit. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[jsence2]

I love the whole "deserve" crap. Nobody deserves anything, you earn what you get. This "deserve" nonsense probably comes from all the "everyone's a winner and gets a trophy" as a child.

Deserve.....hahahahaha

If you don't think human beings DESERVE to be paid enough money that they aren't living in poverty, or their children don't risk going hungry, etc, then I really have nothing to discuss with you. The permeation of greed and selfishness towards other fellow human beings astounds me. I'm not saying they should get enough money to go on vacations every season or buy expensive shit. We are talking about making enough money so that they don't have to work two jobs to simply afford a roof over their head and food on their table.

You're more concerned about someone flipping burgers making $15 an hour, than you are about the CEO of those companies making $10m a year while not providing livable wages to their employees. The rich have convinced everyone else that it's poor people, not them, are the greedy ones.

Btw....in one breath you said that people shouldn't get unemployment anymore to sit at home so that these restaurants can get workers, and in the other you said you don't feel sorry for someone working fast food in their late 20s or beyond. You can't have it both ways. I stand with the workers. It's a free market economy--and the workers finally realized that they have the supply and are requiring the employers to pay what it takes to have their demands met. If unemployment pays more than your job does, then you're not paying people enough to work at your company.

[jsence2]

All this going back and forth...jsence, sorry, but if you are working as a cook at McDonald's, that position was never meant for someone to "make a living" off of it. That position is for high school kids, college kids or retirees that need extra income.
If you work at McDonald's and want a career, you move into Management.

Someone microwaving a burger, does not deserve $15 per hour, sorry.

Now, if you are a chef in a regular restaurant, by all means, you deserve more as that takes skill, it requires schooling, it requires knowledge, etc.

If you are a greeter at a restaurant, sorry, you do not deserve $15 per hour to ask people how many are in your party and then seat them and hand them silverware.

I do agree with waiters and waitresses making an hourly wage that is higher than $3 per hour or whatever it is and then living off tips.
However, like you, I also know a lot of people in the food industry and many of them make such good money on tips, they never want that to go away and go to making $15-$20 per hour, cause they make more than that with tips and some nights bring in some damn good money.

To me, it is about skill. What type of skill does the position that you work require to do a good job at it?
Again, a greeter, not hard, smile, sit someone, hand them silverware and be on your way.
Waiter and Waitress, far more skill to be good at it and get things right and care about the customer.
Kitchen staff, deserve a lot as they are the main reason people come back to your restaurant or not.

The cost of a college degree is 40-50x times what it was when our parents went to school. Poor people are at a disadvantage, they don't have the funds in their family to pay for it. Therefore, their options are limited. It's easy to say "well work two jobs". Ok, how do they do that if they are having to help watch their siblings while their parents work, because childcare is 20x the cost of what it was when our parents paid for someone to watch us? How do they work two jobs and still find time to go to class once they can pay for a semester?

This is the epitome of "privilege". It's easy for people who don't have to make those decisions to make them for others. Really easy. It's even easier for those who came from privilege. Are there people who live beyond their means? Sure. Are there people who work the system? Absolutely. But the majority of people who struggle do so because they started with a disadvantage, if not many, and they barely do well enough to scrape by. And if you've ever worked in a corporate setting, promotions and raises are not based on merit--they are based on politics, on how you may physically look towards a client, how much the boss likes you, etc.

And one last thing....if you are working a job where people demand perfection of you (and they do--don't tell me you've never gotten a burger that was missing a condiment and it didn't piss you off) and want things immediately, then yes, they deserve a decent wage. $15 an hour is $31,000 a year before taxes. That's $21,700 after taxes. Nobody is going to get rich off of $21,700 take-home a year. But they won't be homeless, they won't go hungry, and they might actually be able to afford some college courses and get those skills you talk about. If you're against someone making $30k a year....why?

[GeorgesGoons]

I love the whole "deserve" crap. Nobody deserves anything, you earn what you get. This "deserve" nonsense probably comes from all the "everyone's a winner and gets a trophy" as a child.

Deserve.....hahahahaha

If you don't think human beings DESERVE to be paid enough money that they aren't living in poverty, or their children don't risk going hungry, etc, then I really have nothing to discuss with you. The permeation of greed and selfishness towards other fellow human beings astounds me. I'm not saying they should get enough money to go on vacations every season or buy expensive shit. We are talking about making enough money so that they don't have to work two jobs to simply afford a roof over their head and food on their table.

do they deserve cable and cell phones? A $300 car payment? They chose to not do anything with their life, why is everyone on the left want to hand out money to people without the drive? There are free opportunities with each state labor department to get ahead, how many are doing that? If they are in the late 20's or beyond...I'd say hardly any of those people have tried to improve themselves while bitching about a living wage.

You're more concerned about someone flipping burgers making $15 an hour, than you are about the CEO of those companies making $10m a year while not providing livable wages to their employees. The rich have convinced everyone else that it's poor people, not them, are the greedy ones.

You form your own business from the ground up to become a fortune 100 company and then tell me you don't deserve $10M a year. The uneducated and unskilled workers do not deserve $15/hr.

Btw....in one breath you said that people shouldn't get unemployment anymore to sit at home so that these restaurants can get workers, and in the other you said you don't feel sorry for someone working fast food in their late 20s or beyond. You can't have it both ways. I stand with the workers. It's a free market economy--and the workers finally realized that they have the supply and are requiring the employers to pay what it takes to have their demands met. If unemployment pays more than your job does, then you're not paying people enough to work at your company.

I can have it both ways. The vast majority chose to stay unemployable by any company outside of the hospitality business. And we'll see how long they stay out of work once the mandate to search for jobs and the additional federal money runs out. I'll bet come September (I believe the $300 ends in August) you'll see a lot of workers in the restaurant field going back to work.

[nick]

So i'm excited to get my Covid shot monday ..

[GeorgesGoons]

The cost of a college degree is 40-50x times what it was when our parents went to school. Poor people are at a disadvantage, they don't have the funds in their family to pay for it. Therefore, their options are limited. It's easy to say "well work two jobs". Ok, how do they do that if they are having to help watch their siblings while their parents work, because childcare is 20x the cost of what it was when our parents paid for someone to watch us? How do they work two jobs and still find time to go to class once they can pay for a semester?

This is the epitome of "privilege". It's easy for people who don't have to make those decisions to make them for others. Really easy. It's even easier for those who came from privilege. Are there people who live beyond their means? Sure. Are there people who work the system? Absolutely. But the majority of people who struggle do so because they started with a disadvantage, if not many, and they barely do well enough to scrape by. And if you've ever worked in a corporate setting, promotions and raises are not based on merit--they are based on politics, on how you may physically look towards a client, how much the boss likes you, etc.

And one last thing....if you are working a job where people demand perfection of you (and they do--don't tell me you've never gotten a burger that was missing a condiment and it didn't piss you off) and want things immediately, then yes, they deserve a decent wage. $15 an hour is $31,000 a year before taxes. That's $21,700 after taxes. Nobody is going to get rich off of $21,700 take-home a year. But they won't be homeless, they won't go hungry, and they might actually be able to afford some college courses and get those skills you talk about. If you're against someone making $30k a year....why?

This is the problem with America. Everyone thinks college is the answer. It's not! Unless you are going for a specific field, otherwise you are wasting your money. Learning a trade is much cheaper and a lot of them can be OJT while you still get paid. I had zero money for college, so I took the route of bettering myself and my family by joining the Army. It's not for everyone but if you want to get yourself out of a shit situation there are opportunities there as well. There is a reason why you see so many recruitment billboards in the impoverished sections of the city. It's trying to give them an out from their current situation.

Privilege....hahahaha

[GeorgesGoons]

So i'm excited to get my Covid shot monday ..

Wife got her second one on Saturday. She was sluggish as hell that night thru Monday. She probably slept 10-12 hours each day. Hope that doesn't hit you like that. Which one you taking?

[nick]

^ i was actually writing almost all that out (minus the condescending parts) but ya.. college is a waste of time. The internet will kill the thought of college/university for if not Gen X, then the next Gen.

I have to take a 4th class engineering test so I can move up the ladder quicker. It used to be a 8 month course at a College.. well not its 2 tests over 3 months at $75 each and I have a 500 page booklet my school printed off for me and youtube to watch examples. I can also just walk down to my boiler room and check it out if I want.

Youtube is the GOAT.

[nick]

So i'm excited to get my Covid shot monday ..

Wife got her second one on Saturday. She was sluggish as hell that night thru Monday. She probably slept 10-12 hours each day. Hope that doesn't hit you like that. Which one you taking?

I have no idea. Either Pzifer or Moderna. This is the first shot thats apparently soft but we've been warned the 2nd one is a doozy.

That said I smoke so much weed if I feel like shit I'll just smoke and sleep. Plus ive abused this body for 34 years so I'm sure this vaccine will get lost with some left over MDMA, Coke and Acid in my system.

[jsence2]

Core Utilities: $150
Phone: $50
Internet: $50
Food: $300 (keep in mind, I believe FT McDonald's employees get unlimited meals, so could be much less)
Left Over: $150 - This will cover public transportation and "extras."

That's a fully functional life for a single person, with the shit level job, and going 'worst case' scenario on most stuff.

Ok, let's discuss Louisville....

1) If you think $150 covers core utilities, try again. LG&E alone will eat that much per month, usually more.

2) Unlimited meals, what McDonald's you working at?! I have friends who have worked there... if you edit the menu item at all (no mustard, for example), it's no longer free. And it's one meal per shift. No add-ons.

3) $50 for internet....for the first year, maybe. And if your apartment doesn't have multiple options for providers (many don't), you're up to $85 a month after that first year with Spectrum.

4) That "left over" of $150 a month doesn't go far at all. Public transit? Yeah, not available in all places. Where it is, like here....you're on the bus 1-2 hours a day. At least. Oh, and "extras" include things like doctor appointments, clothing for work, random fees, etc. And forget having any savings if you have something happen like you hurt yourself or you have an emergency expense of some sort.

Again, why demean someone for the job they work? Why look down on them and say "you don't deserve to be paid a livable wage"? It makes no sense to me. It's class warfare, and the people at the top are laughing their asses all the way to the bank as they rob the rest of us blind, hoard all the wealth in this country, and watch us fight amongst each other.

Nobody, NO BO DY, needs to have a billion dollars, much less multiple billions. There is enough wealth in this country for everyone to be able to live without fear of losing their home, their job, their food, etc. There is enough wealth for those who work harder and take more risks to be compensated accordingly. You're demeaning someone saying they don't deserve more--do you think you don't deserve more than what you're making at your job now? We all do.

Here's the last thing I'm going to say on this....UPS and Amazon. Two companies with similar demands for their warehouse staff. It's manual labor. Both employers in this area. This gets to the point of "deserve". It's not about what people "deserve", it's about companies paying the least they can so the people at the top can get richer...

Amazon pays their employees shit. They don't give good benefits. Their workers are under insane stress, and if they mess up twice, they're out. Few breaks. Micromanaged beyond hell. No COVID protections during the past year. If they try to unionize, they're rooted out and fired.

UPS pays their employees $14 an hour, minimum, and give bonuses for working nights and weekends. They pay for college, not just community college but UofL, for four years if you work for them that time (pay it each semester directly to the school). Union benefits. Promotion opportunities. If you screw up, you have a documented path of what happens. Very stringent protections for their workers the past year.

It's not about worth. It's not about "deserve". It's about labor realizing their power and exercising it in the union negotiations. Both companies can afford to pay their workers what they're worth. One does, one doesn't. That doesn't mean the Amazon employees "get what they deserve", it means they take what they can get. And workers are finally realizing they hold the power, and they're demanding better.

[jsence2]

Lol George...

1) Most CEOs that make $10m a year didn't do shit for that company. They moved from another company they failed at, or they got hired on at a high-level position and moved their way up after another CEO left or got fired. McDonald's CEO is Chris Kempczinski. He's a Harvard MBA (but hey, college is overrated, right?) who started his career with Procter & Gamble in management. Then worked for Pepsi. Then worked for Kraft, as VPs at both places. He didn't risk shit, he didn't invest shit. He made $10.8 million last year. So miss me with that shit.

2) The military industrial complex is another reason this country is in the wage gap it's in. We spend way too much on military to have bases in places we don't belong. Stop policing the world and fix things here. Military recruitment in those places, as you put it, is preying on the poor. You don't see the rich sending their kids into the military to "become men" like they claim the poor should, I wonder why that is? Usually, it's the rich paying to avoid the military when duty calls.

3) When you say "they choose not to do anything with their life", it's one of the most closed-minded things I've ever read on here. Who is "they", George? It's easy to judge people when you have no clue what their life circumstances are. It's really easy to tell other folks how to live their lives when you have all the comforts. Yeah, you worked hard. Congrats on what you have. You have no idea how hard someone else works. Maybe he works McDonald's in the evenings because he has to take care of three siblings at home so his mother can work. Maybe he works McDonald's on the weekends because he has a learning disability and can't work a 9-5 office job.

You have no idea what some of these people are dealing with or go through. You judge them for the work they do because you view it as menial and beneath you. Congratulations for outing yourself. I'm done debating with you, because you can't debate with someone whose mind is so closed and full of contempt towards fellow human beings.

[GeorgesGoons]

Amazon here starts at $15/hr

So let me get this straight....a person builds a multi billion dollar business and they don't deserve to have billions? You are a writer (if I remember correctly), you don't deserve to make over $40k. See how that works? Who the hell are you to tell someone how much money they can have / earn?

[GeorgesGoons]

Lol George...

1) Most CEOs that make $10m a year didn't do shit for that company. They moved from another company they failed at, or they got hired on at a high-level position and moved their way up after another CEO left or got fired. McDonald's CEO is Chris Kempczinski. He's a Harvard MBA (but hey, college is overrated, right?) who started his career with Procter & Gamble in management. Then worked for Pepsi. Then worked for Kraft, as VPs at both places. He didn't risk shit, he didn't invest shit. He made $10.8 million last year. So miss me with that shit.

2) The military industrial complex is another reason this country is in the wage gap it's in. We spend way too much on military to have bases in places we don't belong. Stop policing the world and fix things here. Military recruitment in those places, as you put it, is preying on the poor. You don't see the rich sending their kids into the military to "become men" like they claim the poor should, I wonder why that is? Usually, it's the rich paying to avoid the military when duty calls.

3) When you say "they choose not to do anything with their life", it's one of the most closed-minded things I've ever read on here. Who is "they", George? It's easy to judge people when you have no clue what their life circumstances are. It's really easy to tell other folks how to live their lives when you have all the comforts. Yeah, you worked hard. Congrats on what you have. You have no idea how hard someone else works. Maybe he works McDonald's in the evenings because he has to take care of three siblings at home so his mother can work. Maybe he works McDonald's on the weekends because he has a learning disability and can't work a 9-5 office job.

You have no idea what some of these people are dealing with or go through. You judge them for the work they do because you view it as menial and beneath you. Congratulations for outing yourself. I'm done debating with you, because you can't debate with someone whose mind is so closed and full of contempt towards fellow human beings.

Now lets go with how many college graduates are underemployed because they chose some stupid degree in underwater basket weaving? But college is the answer right?
https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktak ... ing-degree

If you are stupid enough to believe anyone is calling out ones with a learning disability or a kid working at night so his mom can work during the day then you are beyond reach.

And no, I don't know how hard they have it. But I do KNOW what it takes to get out of that situation. I am living proof of it. Keeping with the wo-is-me mentality wont get anyone far. Keeping with the "I deserve" mentality and they'll stay where they are. Nobody cares about you, me or anyone else like we care about ourselves. If you have a shit situation, improve it! it's not hard, you just need a little drive to do so.

"They" are the unskilled workers not trying to get themselves out of it. Or are you trying to insinuate that was a racist comment like all the liberals do when they are on the wrong side of a debate?