NDL Forum

My bad 286* school shootings. Now it’s practically nothing. Facts be skewed

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:47 pm You are acting like we are having active shooters in schools at an alarming rate. That's not happening

Of course that is happening. What are you comparing this to?

Compared to other countries, we are 100% having active school shooters at an alarming rate.

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:47 pm As AJ said, this is usually a parenting problem. Or lack of parenting to be precise. Couple lack of parenting and poverty you'll get this kind of violence.

Is America the only 1st world country in the world with parenting and poverty problems?

shel311 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:43 pm

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:47 pm You are acting like we are having active shooters in schools at an alarming rate. That's not happening

Of course that is happening. What are you comparing this to?

Compared to other countries, we are 100% having active school shooters at an alarming rate.

Nick said it's happening every other week. That's what I was comparing it to. A dumbass in the stands having a negligent discharge is not a school shooting, however it is lumped into the school shooting statistics. We can go thru many other cases that are just like that. It's just not happening at the rate he is saying it is when you look at actual active school shooters and not gang violence, dumbass women in the stands.....etc

I get what you are saying George, I do. A dumbass with a gun in her purse and reaching in and it going off, is not a "school shooting" in the sense that we are thinking about school shootings. And in my opinion, it should not be counted as a school shooting.

But I don't get the argument either that it is not happening at an alarming rate.

I grew up in the country. When I was a kid, those gun racks Reign joked about, those were in pickup trucks back windows and a 12 gauge hunting shotgun was in the rack, on school property and back then, no school shootings.

I have no idea what the problem is or a fix for it, but it is 100% happening at an alarming rate!
When you compare us to any other country, there is simply no comparison.

I am all for guns. I own them, I grew up with them, I will continue to own them, but we also grew up to respect them. We handled them and shot them from the time we were kids.

I do blame parents. They don't teach their kids the same respect and honor that we learned as kids when it comes to handling guns.
I have no clue if the internet is causing the heightened awareness to this issue or if it is allowing kids to have access now-a-days to get in groups and discuss shit that we just couldn't when we were young because there was no internet or what the issue is, but as an avid gun owner, we 100% have a problem with school shootings in America.

And I have zero clue what the answer is, but with my kids in school, it scares the shit out of me every single day.

Start charging parents of minors who do this and watch the increase in martial arts registration and decrease in gun ownership.

nick wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:40 pm Start charging parents of minors who do this and watch the increase in martial arts registration and decrease in gun ownership.

You may be right nick.

The issue I have with this is, the truly troubled kids. If the parents have them locked away and the kid still finds a way to get them, then I don't feel like that parent should suffer.
There are some terrible kids out there, but I know this is a very small % of cases where this happens.

Shits heartbreaking. A 17 year old had to die to stop the shooter. That kid did nothing wrong and now he will be celebrated but that won’t bring him back. Shits beyond fucked.

nick wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:01 pm Shits heartbreaking. A 17 year old had to die to stop the shooter. That kid did nothing wrong and now he will be celebrated but that won’t bring him back. Shits beyond fucked.

I agree nick, it absolutely sucks!
I could not imagine being the parents of that child. You are beyond proud, yet, so sad because he is gone!
I can't imagine!

nick wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:09 pm

ajalves wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:27 pm its for sure a problem. I don't thinks its just a weapon problem though. A lot of it is a parenting problem.

You'd be astonished at the sheer amount of 'mental health issues' young kids have nowadays.

say what you will, the pandemic didn't help things

It’s a weapon problem. Are we gonna act like other countries don’t have bad parents? I don’t see shootings at a every other week level in any country, including third world ones.

You're missing the point... there's levels to the parenting issues.

The_Niddler wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:36 pm I get what you are saying George, I do. A dumbass with a gun in her purse and reaching in and it going off, is not a "school shooting" in the sense that we are thinking about school shootings. And in my opinion, it should not be counted as a school shooting.

But I don't get the argument either that it is not happening at an alarming rate

My point was to refute Nick's claim it is happening every other week. If you add the dumb broad in the gym and the likes of her then sure, it's happening at that rate. But her case, gang related shootings etc, should not be included in school shootings.

It's tragic whenever a kid is killed, whether at school or in a drive by shooting. He latter happen a hell of a lot more than school shootings but nobody wants to hitch that wagon to their woke train because, who cares about poor black kids....The gun violence happening here in Omaha is surprising as I don't recall it ever being this bad. And most of the shooters being arrested are 16-19 years old

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:33 pm My point was to refute Nick's claim it is happening every other week.

Your focus seems to be in a weird place.

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:33 pm If you add the dumb broad in the gym and the likes of her then sure, it's happening at that rate.

If you take out all the ones that you think are dumb, it's still happening at an alarming rate, still way more than other countries.

I'm wondering how many school shootings per year do you consider not to be an alarming rate.

My simple POV:
1.) School shootings are happening way too often.
2.) The root of problem of school shootings isn't legal gun accessibility
3.) The cause of school shootings is multi-faceted, with major influencers including: Individual accountability, social media (root of numerous issues), social interaction, various parenting influences (child accountability, 1:1 interaction, lack of guidance, self-indulgence, and so on)

I said anytime a kid is shot it's alarming. Pretty obvious there. I like numbers and to say it's happening every other week is purely false, when you use the term school shootings. As I am sure 99% of us all think of the socially awkward white kid doing the shootings when that phrase comes up.

The US has a gun problem and a parenting problem. Those together are just a disaster waiting to happen

ReignOnU wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:50 pm The cause of school shootings is multi-faceted, with major influencers including: Individual accountability, social media (root of numerous issues), social interaction, various parenting influences (child accountability, 1:1 interaction, lack of guidance, self-indulgence, and so on)

Is there any data or anything we can point to that shows the US is worse at these things than every other first world country?

shel311 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:56 pm

ReignOnU wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:50 pm The cause of school shootings is multi-faceted, with major influencers including: Individual accountability, social media (root of numerous issues), social interaction, various parenting influences (child accountability, 1:1 interaction, lack of guidance, self-indulgence, and so on)

Is there any data or anything we can point to that shows the US is worse at these things than every other first world country?

I'm sure the parenting piece and the rest he pointed out is subjective. One piece of data would be single parent households and crime rate amongst the kids in single parent homes.

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:51 pm I said anytime a kid is shot it's alarming. Pretty obvious there. I like numbers and to say it's happening every other week is purely false, when you use the term school shootings. As I am sure 99% of us all think of the socially awkward white kid doing the shootings when that phrase comes up.

The US has a gun problem and a parenting problem. Those together are just a disaster waiting to happen

Majority of school shootings occur in minority and poor communities, disproportionately affecting the black community.

Fun stuff...
https://everytownresearch.org/maps/gunf ... l-grounds/

You can download the data and enjoy the reading if you'd like... some of examples... these are only from the last month or so. George's examples are in the full list as well, didn't feel like duplicating:

Several goats and chickens escaped from the Future Farmers of America organization's animal pen on campus and were shot. Police estimate that the animals were shot after students were dismissed early for Thanksgiving break.

A 17-year-old boy was fatally shot outside of G.W. Carver Elementary School. The school was not in session because of Veteran's Day. Police have not identified a suspect.

A man, who was a suspect involved in a carjacking, hijacked a police car, which he drove through a fence and onto the grounds of Mesilla Valley Leadership Academy. After the car crashed onto school grounds, the man died by a self inflected gunshot wound. The school was put on lock down as a precaution; no one else was injured.

A 28-year-old man went on a shooting spree in Rogers, AR after not being able to purchase a gun at two retailers. The man fired four shots at an Academy Sports store across the street from the retailer and then went to Rogers High School, where he fired 16 shots at the football stadium press box. Several of the windows were shattered, and police found eight bullet holes on the structure. The shooter is facing charges of a terroristic act, unlawful discharge of a firearm from a vehicle, and first-degree criminal mischief.

A 39-year-old man died by suicide in a car parked in the Eastway Elementary School parking lot. The man was wanted in connection to a Newport News, Va., homicide and does not appear to have any connections to the school.

shel311 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:56 pm

ReignOnU wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:50 pm The cause of school shootings is multi-faceted, with major influencers including: Individual accountability, social media (root of numerous issues), social interaction, various parenting influences (child accountability, 1:1 interaction, lack of guidance, self-indulgence, and so on)

Is there any data or anything we can point to that shows the US is worse at these things than every other first world country?

Good question. I've never actively searched for data on these influences for the US vs other countries. My gut feeling is that we are likely to, because I believe we have a higher level of accessibility to them and we seem to be more liberal in our interactions with kids. I have a lot of relatives that teach and I've been actively involved in youth coaching for the last 7 years. I don't have a history beyond that to compare to, but based on my experiences and the conversations with relatives/friends, there's a significant accountability issue. As for the influences of social media/technology, there's tons of studies, so it's really just down to an interaction comparison between nations. I'm assuming we're at a significantly higher rate then most other countries.

ReignOnU wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:31 pm

nick wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:09 pm

ajalves wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:27 pm its for sure a problem. I don't thinks its just a weapon problem though. A lot of it is a parenting problem.

You'd be astonished at the sheer amount of 'mental health issues' young kids have nowadays.

say what you will, the pandemic didn't help things

It’s a weapon problem. Are we gonna act like other countries don’t have bad parents? I don’t see shootings at a every other week level in any country, including third world ones.

You're missing the point... there's levels to the parenting issues.

Ya Americans are the only ones with parental problems… no other developed country.

File this under “excuses”

ReignOnU wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:50 pm My simple POV:
1.) School shootings are happening way too often.
2.) The root of problem of school shootings isn't legal gun accessibility
3.) The cause of school shootings is multi-faceted, with major influencers including: Individual accountability, social media (root of numerous issues), social interaction, various parenting influences (child accountability, 1:1 interaction, lack of guidance, self-indulgence, and so on)

Well said…like everything in life it is a combination of things…no one thing will stop these tragic events and to many times people get on their high and mighty soap box and spew some political nonsense. The focus moves away from recognizing signs and getting people resources to get them through their fear, anger, hate, worthlessness or whatever it maybe and puts the focus on some bullshit agenda