NDL Forum

Ry wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:41 pm

ReignOnU wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:32 pm

Ry wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:03 pm

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:38 am Facebook suspends Trumps account indefinitely. This should scare people that if you don't toe the line of the elites you can be silenced

Well most of us don't spew lies that effect the lives of millions of people, so there's that.

Hot take, but you should look around at the numerous posts of others that reach out to millions before making it though.

Thanks! When you're the leader of the United States, maybe the words typed and spoken mean more.

It's cute that you think it's just the president.

ReignOnU wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:30 pm

jeheinz72 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:27 pm

ReignOnU wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:54 am

shel311 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:33 am Amazing that we can't all agree that rioters of 2 days ago and rioters from all summer long are all equally scum of the earth.


But ya know, gotta stick to those party lines.

Whew, have to break w/you on this one.

I don't lump all protestors into the same group. There's levels to it and certainly many of the protestors this week and earlier this year are not scum of the earth. Poor decision to go near a mob that's looting and burning down buildings, while trying to support racial inequality? Certainly. Scum of the earth? No. Poor decision to go to Washington when tensions are at epic proportions, while trying to support your political choice or patriotism? Certainly? Scum of the earth? No.

Even those that entered an area unlawfully, in either case, I'm not going to classify as scum. Now... when you talk about burning down buildings of small business owners in your own city, locking officers in a PD and trying to light it on fire, etc... that's scum.

They aren't scum, but all protestors should've been treated the same way.

Back in 2016 when Antifa wrecked havoc in San Jose at a Trump rally and the left deemed it ok because it was against Trump (there are likely earlier instances, even of right wing violence, but this is the earliest tangible instance I could call to mind at 8:27 AM).

Once that was deemed ok, it essentially set us on the path

Definitely disagree as well. Marching down the middle of the street in Seattle is far different from blocking exits, dousing a building in gas and trying to kill LEOs.

Well, duh. Marching isn't the type of protesting I'm obviously talking about.

jeheinz72 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:15 pm

ReignOnU wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:30 pm

jeheinz72 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:27 pm They aren't scum, but all protestors should've been treated the same way.

Back in 2016 when Antifa wrecked havoc in San Jose at a Trump rally and the left deemed it ok because it was against Trump (there are likely earlier instances, even of right wing violence, but this is the earliest tangible instance I could call to mind at 8:27 AM).

Once that was deemed ok, it essentially set us on the path

Definitely disagree as well. Marching down the middle of the street in Seattle is far different from blocking exits, dousing a building in gas and trying to kill LEOs.

Well, duh. Marching isn't the type of protesting I'm obviously talking about.

You're new around here, trust me, choose your words carefully. If it's even remotely ambiguous, you'll be racist, Nazi, and/or spawn of Satan.

The thing is there is middle ground for debate and compromise between socialism and capitalism economic principles IMO for the vast majority of people in this country including me.

IMO We find that radical divide based on weather someone thinks it's the government's duty to ensure equal treatment for EVERYONE under the law or just the people that look and think like them. People I know and have been around all my life that tend to vote republican seem to have a huge problem with realizing not everyone grew up the same way as them and had the same opportunities so if they end up in anyway different from their own life experiences it means something is wrong or corrupt with those people.

Crowes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:00 pm The thing is there is middle ground for debate and compromise between socialism and capitalism economic principles IMO for the vast majority of people in this country including me.

IMO We find that radical divide based on weather someone thinks it's the government's duty to ensure equal treatment for EVERYONE under the law or just the people that look and think like them. People I know and have been around all my life that tend to vote republican seem to have a huge problem with realizing not everyone grew up the same way as them and had the same opportunities so if they end up in anyway different from their own life experiences it means something is wrong or corrupt with those people.

The problem isn't race as the left leaning media and Democrats in DC says it is. It's economics, a poor white kid and a poor black kid has a much harder hill to climb that a rich white/black kid. This is the single biggest thing I have with Democrats, everything is race related and it really isn't. The amount of money in your pocket means a hell of a lot more than the color of your skin. And this is coming from someone that had to fight for that so called white privilege the left likes to throw in white males faces. I am where I am because of extremely hard work to get out of the economic disadvantage I started life with. I just wish I could say the same for the rest of my family.

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:38 am

shel311 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:33 am Amazing that we can't all agree that protestors/rioters of 2 days ago and protestors/rioters from all summer long are all equally scum of the earth.


But ya know, gotta stick to those party lines.

I'm not sticking to those party lines. I've said they should have the book thrown at them.

That's not the point. The point is:

1) They literally had NOTHING thrown at them (whereas people protesting outside the White House for racial equality were shot with rubber bullets and attacked with tear gas by militarized police) as they stormed the Capitol. They were then allowed to walk out of the building. Last year (or maybe 2018), a group of disabled protestors were dragged out, some literally out of their wheelchairs, in handcuffs by Capitol police for protesting inside the building.

2) The President of the United States told them that they needed to march down the street, and "not show any weakness", and "take the fight to them". Those aren't the words of the media, those are the words he himself said to the crowd on Wednesday morning to stoke them into a frenzy. He incited a mob to invade the Capitol.

George, serious queston: what are your thoughts on Lt Gen Honore? Because last night, he basically risked court martial live on TV (even said so himself and then said "ah fuck it") to state that he knows what the security plans should be for a "rally" like that, which was planned weeks in advance, and that he believes the Sgt at Arms for both houses, along with the DOD, Capitol Police, and Trump's administration, should be investigated for collusion and complicity because they were far below what the standards should have been. He's not liberal media; he's not someone who would seemingly go off the reservation with wild accusations, is he? Everything I've ever seen of him, he's well respected.

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:09 am

Crowes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:05 am

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:38 am Facebook suspends Trumps account indefinitely. This should scare people that if you don't toe the line of the elites you can be silenced

Figured you guys would love that kind of stuff. Don't private businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone if they want to? The BS like the baker refusing to serve a gay person because they don't agree with their life choices....

I do agree that businesses should be able to refuse service to anyone. But if you are okay with only hearing opinions that mirror yours then stay in that "echo chamber" (as Reign called it). It's nothing more than another example of cancelling someone that "they" don't agree with.

They silenced the President because he is spreading disinformation and inciting violence. It goes against the Facebook ToS.

Last I checked, they weren't shutting down Facebook for everyone with a conservative viewpoint. His views had nothing to do with why they shut him down. It was his lies.

jsence2 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:29 pm

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:09 am

Crowes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:05 am

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:38 am Facebook suspends Trumps account indefinitely. This should scare people that if you don't toe the line of the elites you can be silenced

Figured you guys would love that kind of stuff. Don't private businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone if they want to? The BS like the baker refusing to serve a gay person because they don't agree with their life choices....

I do agree that businesses should be able to refuse service to anyone. But if you are okay with only hearing opinions that mirror yours then stay in that "echo chamber" (as Reign called it). It's nothing more than another example of cancelling someone that "they" don't agree with.

They silenced the President because he is spreading disinformation and inciting violence. It goes against the Facebook ToS.

Last I checked, they weren't shutting down Facebook for everyone with a conservative viewpoint. His views had nothing to do with why they shut him down. It was his lies.

Reign is unable to make that connection.

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:16 pm

Crowes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:00 pm The thing is there is middle ground for debate and compromise between socialism and capitalism economic principles IMO for the vast majority of people in this country including me.

IMO We find that radical divide based on weather someone thinks it's the government's duty to ensure equal treatment for EVERYONE under the law or just the people that look and think like them. People I know and have been around all my life that tend to vote republican seem to have a huge problem with realizing not everyone grew up the same way as them and had the same opportunities so if they end up in anyway different from their own life experiences it means something is wrong or corrupt with those people.

The problem isn't race as the left leaning media and Democrats in DC says it is. It's economics, a poor white kid and a poor black kid has a much harder hill to climb that a rich white/black kid. This is the single biggest thing I have with Democrats, everything is race related and it really isn't. The amount of money in your pocket means a hell of a lot more than the color of your skin. And this is coming from someone that had to fight for that so called white privilege the left likes to throw in white males faces. I am where I am because of extremely hard work to get out of the economic disadvantage I started life with. I just wish I could say the same for the rest of my family.

See all that reeks of exactly what I'm trying to say. Because YOU worked hard and YOU did whatever you needed to do anyone else that wasn't able to do that or had another life experience is seem as lesser in your world view.

ReignOnU wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:54 am

shel311 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:33 am Amazing that we can't all agree that rioters of 2 days ago and rioters from all summer long are all equally scum of the earth.


But ya know, gotta stick to those party lines.

Whew, have to break w/you on this one.

I don't lump all protestors into the same group. There's levels to it and certainly many of the protestors this week and earlier this year are not scum of the earth. Poor decision to go near a mob that's looting and burning down buildings, while trying to support racial inequality? Certainly. Scum of the earth? No. Poor decision to go to Washington when tensions are at epic proportions, while trying to support your political choice or patriotism? Certainly? Scum of the earth? No.

Even those that entered an area unlawfully, in either case, I'm not going to classify as scum. Now... when you talk about burning down buildings of small business owners in your own city, locking officers in a PD and trying to light it on fire, etc... that's scum.

This is the last I'm going to say on this, Reign, and I'm sorry that you think I'm going "below the belt" when I'm not. I'm simply trying to tell you, as someone who was on the front lines this summer, and who saw friends get shot at with real guns and saw friends get attacked by police, that you're discounting the actions of many for the actions of a few...

1) In many of these cities, the police instigated much of the violence, which begat more violence. In Louisville, on the nights where the police allowed people to march freely and not try to enforce 9pm curfew at 8:45 and open fire....there was little violence, burning, looting, etc. FACT.

2) In many of these cities, outside instigators--the same way many conservatives claim "anteefuh" infiltrated their "peaceful rallies"--began many incidents. See the incident with the store being burned in Missouri by a police officer pretending to be anteefuh and who was outed by his own ex girlfriend.

3) In many of these cities (not all, but many), 98% or more of the protesters were peacefully gathering. That's how it was in Louisville. They were treated with hostility. The media were attacked. Even shot at with projectiles (one reporter in Louisville was literally shot with pepper bullets). Their message was ignored which made them even more upset. But they never stormed a government building. They were rarely ever armed. So why were they treated so differently than those in Washington on Wednesday? Why are they being compared to a mob that was trying to stop an election at the behest of their leader?

That's why there's frustration. That's why there is anger. I've lived it. I've seen it. I just watched LMPD replace a corrupt police chief with the damn former chief of Atlanta who resigned after the police shooting there. People are fed up. Communities are fed up. They were told "don't kneel to protest". They were told "don't march to protest". They were told "don't loot to protest". They were told these things, and then they see what happens on Wednesday, and the Republican party and the President PRAISES them for their actions? THAT is where the anger comes from. And if you can't understand that, then I have no other idea how to try to explain it.

We can have different viewpoints. I don't dislike you, Reign. Hell, we've had a lot of fun over the years. But I also walk away with a really bitter taste in my mouth when I personally see the struggle going on, I personally see the very things that the right-wing media skews (it goes both ways, you know) on Faux News and OANN and NewsMax, and I witness the lies that are spread. It's infuriating to see the actions of "a few" used to discount everything those of us have fought for, while the actions of "a few" on the right get defended away and tossed aside. We can't have it both ways.

I wish you the best.

Crowes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:34 pm

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:16 pm

Crowes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:00 pm The thing is there is middle ground for debate and compromise between socialism and capitalism economic principles IMO for the vast majority of people in this country including me.

IMO We find that radical divide based on weather someone thinks it's the government's duty to ensure equal treatment for EVERYONE under the law or just the people that look and think like them. People I know and have been around all my life that tend to vote republican seem to have a huge problem with realizing not everyone grew up the same way as them and had the same opportunities so if they end up in anyway different from their own life experiences it means something is wrong or corrupt with those people.

The problem isn't race as the left leaning media and Democrats in DC says it is. It's economics, a poor white kid and a poor black kid has a much harder hill to climb that a rich white/black kid. This is the single biggest thing I have with Democrats, everything is race related and it really isn't. The amount of money in your pocket means a hell of a lot more than the color of your skin. And this is coming from someone that had to fight for that so called white privilege the left likes to throw in white males faces. I am where I am because of extremely hard work to get out of the economic disadvantage I started life with. I just wish I could say the same for the rest of my family.

See all that reeks of exactly what I'm trying to say. Because YOU worked hard and YOU did whatever you needed to do anyone else that wasn't able to do that or had another life experience is seem as lesser in your world view.

You completely missed the point. It has nothing to do with me, it was just an example. Race is not the dividing factor as the Democrats would like you to believe. Its economics.

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:16 pm

Crowes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:00 pm The thing is there is middle ground for debate and compromise between socialism and capitalism economic principles IMO for the vast majority of people in this country including me.

IMO We find that radical divide based on weather someone thinks it's the government's duty to ensure equal treatment for EVERYONE under the law or just the people that look and think like them. People I know and have been around all my life that tend to vote republican seem to have a huge problem with realizing not everyone grew up the same way as them and had the same opportunities so if they end up in anyway different from their own life experiences it means something is wrong or corrupt with those people.

The problem isn't race as the left leaning media and Democrats in DC says it is. It's economics, a poor white kid and a poor black kid has a much harder hill to climb that a rich white/black kid. This is the single biggest thing I have with Democrats, everything is race related and it really isn't. The amount of money in your pocket means a hell of a lot more than the color of your skin. And this is coming from someone that had to fight for that so called white privilege the left likes to throw in white males faces. I am where I am because of extremely hard work to get out of the economic disadvantage I started life with. I just wish I could say the same for the rest of my family.

Please do not lump poor blacks and poor whites together. The fact that you are white (and that I'm white) gives us a huge advantage.

Also, the black community is rightly upset that this nation was built on their backs, and the generational wealth in this country for many long-time rich white families came at their expense. They dealt with segregation for decades. Hell, the city I live in built a damn expressway through downtown, to literally wall off the poor minority areas in the west end from the wealthier areas of the east end. Then they were surrounded to the south by factories and airports, boxing them in (due to the river) while the east end began expanding further and further outward. This stuff is systemic and until we as a nation admit that, nothing can be done to fix it.

George, I know you worked hard. You devoted your life to service, and that requires sacrifice and hard work. I've worked hard for what I have, as well. But I will be damned if I can't admit being white made things a hell of a lot easier for me. Prime example: when I was 16 at a group home, I was involved in a huge brawl. We were all taken to juvenile detention for three weeks. I was then released back to the group home.

I was the only person who wasn't shipped off to either long-term juvi or to a "camp". I was also the only person who was white. And trust me, the way the judge talked to me was vastly different from how she talked to the other seven people involved.

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:43 pm

Crowes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:34 pm

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:16 pm

Crowes wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:00 pm The thing is there is middle ground for debate and compromise between socialism and capitalism economic principles IMO for the vast majority of people in this country including me.

IMO We find that radical divide based on weather someone thinks it's the government's duty to ensure equal treatment for EVERYONE under the law or just the people that look and think like them. People I know and have been around all my life that tend to vote republican seem to have a huge problem with realizing not everyone grew up the same way as them and had the same opportunities so if they end up in anyway different from their own life experiences it means something is wrong or corrupt with those people.

The problem isn't race as the left leaning media and Democrats in DC says it is. It's economics, a poor white kid and a poor black kid has a much harder hill to climb that a rich white/black kid. This is the single biggest thing I have with Democrats, everything is race related and it really isn't. The amount of money in your pocket means a hell of a lot more than the color of your skin. And this is coming from someone that had to fight for that so called white privilege the left likes to throw in white males faces. I am where I am because of extremely hard work to get out of the economic disadvantage I started life with. I just wish I could say the same for the rest of my family.

See all that reeks of exactly what I'm trying to say. Because YOU worked hard and YOU did whatever you needed to do anyone else that wasn't able to do that or had another life experience is seem as lesser in your world view.

You completely missed the point. It has nothing to do with me, it was just an example. Race is not the dividing factor as the Democrats would like you to believe. Its economics.

I guess hundreds of years of slavery and Jim crowe laws compounded with mass incarceration to present day has had nothing to do with the economic condition and opportunities of minority communities.

I guess I am cursed to be self aware enough to see where I am in my life while based on my hard work is also tied to the advantages of the two generations in my family that came before me that I was able to see first hand. Not the mention all the details from the generations going further back that I have little knowledge about.

shel311 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:33 am Amazing that we can't all agree that rioters of 2 days ago and rioters from all summer long are all equally scum of the earth.


But ya know, gotta stick to those party lines.

It really is this simple. People from both sides are posturing and essentially arguing about who’s side of the aisle is worse which is just comical. Everyone’s willing to decry the bad acts from their side but only with the disclaimer that the other side has done far worse.

Hell, I'll even backtrack a little. We don't have to agree they're all "equally" scum of the Earth. Sure, they can be varying degrees of scum of the Earth.

But if we can't all agree that both the looters/rioters from the summer and from the Capitol are all scum of the Earth, then I just don't understand what we're all looking at here.

Then to that point, who cares what degree of scum of the earth they are and who is worse and a little bit less worse. Let's just all come together and agree and be in unity to say F all of them, every last one of them. Every person who set foot in the Capitol, F you. Every single person who looted, rioted, destroyed someone's personal property, F you. F all of them.

shel311 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:17 pm Hell, I'll even backtrack a little. We don't have to agree they're all "equally" scum of the Earth. Sure, they can be varying degrees of scum of the Earth.

But if we can't all agree that both the looters/rioters from the summer and from the Capitol are all scum of the Earth, then I just don't understand what we're all looking at here.

Then to that point, who cares what degree of scum of the earth they are and who is worse and a little bit less worse. Let's just all come together and agree and be in unity to say F all of them, every last one of them. Every person who set foot in the Capitol, F you. Every single person who looted, rioted, destroyed someone's personal property, F you. F all of them.

After saying fuck all of them, I say lock them all up.

GeorgesGoons wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:30 pmAfter saying fuck all of them, I say lock them all up

100%

In a perfect world, every last rioter from all events would be locked up for a looong time.

If you call the BLM gatherings (for lack of a better term) over the summer ‘riots’ because of the actions of a few, but call the Capitol gathering a ‘protest’, you are posturing. If you call the BLM gatherings ‘protests’ and the Capitol gathering a ‘riot’, then you are posturing. Assign actions and responsibility to individuals and stop associating your identity and the identity of others to political parties.

Any white lives matter protests today? I’m bored