COVID-19

[shel311]

Nobody, NO BO DY, needs to have a billion dollars, much less multiple billions.

You're right, no one needs a billion dollars.

That doesn't mean if you've built a multi billion dollar company that you shouldn't get the money that you, ya know, actually earned.

[nick]

i need a billion dollars.

[GeorgesGoons]

Nobody, NO BO DY, needs to have a billion dollars, much less multiple billions.

You're right, no one needs a billion dollars.

That doesn't mean if you've built a multi billion dollar company that you shouldn't get the money that you, ya know, actually earned.

That's the problem with some liberals. They want to distribute wealth to people that hasn't earned anything from the ones that risked everything on a vision they had.

[shel311]

1) Most CEOs that make $10m a year didn't do shit for that company. They moved from another company they failed at, or they got hired on at a high-level position and moved their way up after another CEO left or got fired. McDonald's CEO is Chris Kempczinski. He's a Harvard MBA (but hey, college is overrated, right?) who started his career with Procter & Gamble in management. Then worked for Pepsi. Then worked for Kraft, as VPs at both places. He didn't risk shit, he didn't invest shit. He made $10.8 million last year. So miss me with that shit.

So we shouldn't be allowed to make billions, nor should we be allowed to make $10 million, what is the very specific cap we should place on salary?

What is the exact number?

[Crowes]

https://www.brookings.edu/research/meet ... workforce/

Maybe if we actually knew the reality of the situation we wouldnt be assuming and talking about fairly tale scenarios of how only kids in school are the one's forced to work low wage jobs.

How is it easier to believe that the overwhelming number (literally millions) of people outside school age that make up this workforce are lazy instead of they are performing a service and their labor deserves adequate compensation?

[jsence2]

Nobody, NO BO DY, needs to have a billion dollars, much less multiple billions.

You're right, no one needs a billion dollars.

That doesn't mean if you've built a multi billion dollar company that you shouldn't get the money that you, ya know, actually earned.

If you've built a multi-billion dollar company, then your employees helped you build a multi billion dollar company.

And if you've built a multi-billion dollar company and paid your employees peanuts, and do everything you can to prevent them from getting better benefits, unionizing, etc, then you didn't earn that money, you fleeced your employees out of their share of what they helped you build.

No billion dollar company got there because of one person. That's the whole point. Back in the day, employees got to be shareholders in the companies. They got skin in the game beyond their salary. If their work led to the company doing well, they were rewarded for it accordingly. Now, some people think that the person who "started" the company should reap all of the benefits.

Trust me, as someone who worked for a small company that got bought out, our owner (who did invest his money into it, got $12M for the sale and deserved it) took care of us while we worked for him. We had a great quarter, we got bonuses. We got perks. We knew that we were part of the company and that our success was OUR success, not just his. Did he get the profits? Of course. But we were not just given a paycheck and nothing more when the company did great. That's doing business the right way. We were happy to come to work and give our all because we knew we were part of something, not just grunt workers.

Once we got bought by a private equity firm...now everything is about numbers. That's all we are. And when we have record quarters, which we are doing every quarter, we get...a thank you. And that's it. And people get let go if they're making too much money, because it's all about the "investment" and getting a maximum return for the people who bought us just to make money off of us. It is the rich getting richer, and to hell with any employee that gets let go because they make 30% more than someone they could hire at entry level to do their job.

So no, nobody needs a billion dollars. Now, if someone makes a billion and they've taken care of their workers....ok. But that isn't what happens. So no, they don't deserve that money if they aren't taking care of their people.

[shel311]

Trust me, as someone who worked for a small company that got bought out, our owner (who did invest his money into it, got $12M

Wait, so $10.3 million is too much but $12mil is deserved because YOU know the guy? Is that how it works now?

So no, nobody needs a billion dollars. Now, if someone makes a billion and they've taken care of their workers....ok. But that isn't what happens. So no, they don't deserve that money if they aren't taking care of their people.

You're really just not speaking about anything in the realm of reality, that's all there is to it.

[GeorgesGoons]

Are we at riot level now that 2 ANTIFA members are here? Need to know if I need to cling to my gun and bible

[jsence2]

Trust me, as someone who worked for a small company that got bought out, our owner (who did invest his money into it, got $12M

Wait, so $10.3 million is too much but $12mil is deserved because YOU know the guy? Is that how it works now?

So no, nobody needs a billion dollars. Now, if someone makes a billion and they've taken care of their workers....ok. But that isn't what happens. So no, they don't deserve that money if they aren't taking care of their people.

You're really just not speaking about anything in the realm of reality, that's all there is to it.

Ahhhh the good old "focus on one tiny thing to shift the argument" tactic. Never change, Shel!

Our owner invested himself, sold the company. That's not a salary. Please stop trying to shift the goalposts by comparing someone's annual salary (who has no investment in the company, which was to George's point) with a sale price for someone who built a company from the ground up (which George is right on). When you're ready to actually discuss the points I made, and not pick and chose the tiniest things to hone in on, let me know.

And if you think someone "deserves" to have more money than they could ever dream of spending, while denying their workers decent wages and benefits, then you're defending a billionaire who would fire you in a second if he could replace you with someone who made 20% less than you and I have no logical reason why you are ok with that behavior other than blind loyalty to capitalism.

[jsence2]

Are we at riot level now that 2 ANTIFA members are here? Need to know if I need to cling to my gun and bible

The Bible that I own talks about a man named Jesus who preached against hoarding wealth, not helping those in need, loving those who screw up in life and need help because of their own mistakes, not listening to false prophets, turning the other cheek, etc.

Maybe instead of clinging to the Bible, some folks should open it up and read what's in it. Mainly the chapters in the New Testament.

[GeorgesGoons]

Are we at riot level now that 2 ANTIFA members are here? Need to know if I need to cling to my gun and bible

The Bible that I own talks about a man named Jesus who preached against hoarding wealth, not helping those in need, loving those who screw up in life and need help because of their own mistakes, not listening to false prophets, turning the other cheek, etc.

Maybe instead of clinging to the Bible, some folks should open it up and read what's in it. Mainly the chapters in the New Testament.

Obviously you didn't get the reference

[shel311]

Ahhhh the good old "focus on one tiny thing to shift the argument" tactic. Never change, Shel!

Jsence: $10 mil is too much
JSence: $12mil, totally deserved
Shel: Uhh what?
Jsence: Stop focusing on what I say!!!!

[shel311]

When you're ready to actually discuss the points I made

You mean like the one where you decide who does and doesn't deserve the money they earn?

Nah, I'm good.


Whether someone is a huge piece of shit or not quite literally and factually means absolutely nothing with respect to whether they deserve money they earn or not. Like I said, you're just speaking with emotion, not in reality. That's it, nothing more. So no, i don't want to argue what you emotionally think someone deserves when it doesn't align with reality and facts.

[jsence2]

When you're ready to actually discuss the points I made

You mean like the one where you decide who does and doesn't deserve the money they earn?

Nah, I'm good.


Whether someone is a huge piece of shit or not quite literally and factually means absolutely nothing with respect to whether they deserve money they earn or not. Like I said, you're just speaking with emotion, not in reality. That's it, nothing more. So no, i don't want to argue what you emotionally think someone deserves when it doesn't align with reality and facts.

Sorry, until you grasp the simple monetary business concept of "salary" versus "selling price", there's not any point discussing anything with you. You're not this stupid, Shel. Stop thinking that I am. If you really, TRULY don't understand the difference between a business owner selling the business, and a CEO taking an annual salary, maybe you can ask a middle school econ student to explain it to you.

Until you can actually discuss this like an adult and not a troll, it's like playing chess with a pigeon. You're going to knock all the pieces over, shit on the board, and strut around like you won.

[jsence2]

Are we at riot level now that 2 ANTIFA members are here? Need to know if I need to cling to my gun and bible

The Bible that I own talks about a man named Jesus who preached against hoarding wealth, not helping those in need, loving those who screw up in life and need help because of their own mistakes, not listening to false prophets, turning the other cheek, etc.

Maybe instead of clinging to the Bible, some folks should open it up and read what's in it. Mainly the chapters in the New Testament.

Obviously you didn't get the reference

And obviously you didn't get the point where I'm pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of the majority of "Christian conservatives" who rail about "handouts" and "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" and don't think people "deserve" to make a living wage because they work a shitty job.

[shel311]

Sorry, until you grasp the simple monetary business concept of "salary" versus "selling price", there's not any point discussing anything with you. You're not this stupid, Shel. Stop thinking that I am. If you really, TRULY don't understand the difference between a business owner selling the business, and a CEO taking an annual salary, maybe you can ask a middle school econ student to explain it to you.

I mean, you have zero grasp of why a CEO would make more money with a multi billion dollar company as opposed to a much smaller company, so ease up there.

You also think money is "deserved" based on things you like or don't like, again, which has no basis in reality. I know you don't like hearing that and think it's trolling, but it's quite literally a fact. It's just a fact you refuse to accept.

Until you can actually discuss this like an adult and not a troll, it's like playing chess with a pigeon. You're going to knock all the pieces over, shit on the board, and strut around like you won.

Tell me more about who deserves and doesn't deserve money based on your emotions. Facts and reality don't care about your emotions, that's the disconnect, that's what you can't grasp.

[nick]

*patiently waiting for the riccio post*

[shel311]

*patiently waiting for the riccio post*

I'm losing hope but still feel like it's coming.

[nick]

The best thing about your argument is you’re both right.

It is madness to actually want a billion+ especially in this day and age. I think I would donate anything over the billion I made because that’s just how I am but I also dunno if that’s true cause I’m not a billionaire... I just feel like I would.

It is also madness to suggest there’s a cap on how much someone should make.

[footballkelly31]

You sir are spot on..jsence is right no one needs that much and employee comp should be better. Reign and george are right that it shouldnt be an expectation and one needs to improve their situation. Improving ones situation is different for everyone which is what i think crowes was getting at along with the growing disparity in the wealth gap and the rising cost of living in this day and age.

There is no right or wrong answer as it is surely a blend of many factors. We can only hope the government (while needed for some level of oversight as humans as a whole are egocentric and self preserving) doesn't over extend its power and artificially adjust the system (likely to late)