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shel311
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Post by shel311 »

nick wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:30 pm Australia had like 200ish gun deaths last yr.. let's assume 1 person per death (maybe more who knows).. thats 1ish gun death per 1.5ish days.. .. That seems acceptable, no?
But the point is when they banned guns, gun deaths didn't drop. Technically, they did but gun deaths dropped everywhere, and they didn't drop at a higher rate at all. And all other violent crimes spiked.

But again, I think the issue in America is bigger than guns and likely not fixable. It sounds a bit contradictory but I think we're at this point because of our relaxed gun laws but making them stricter won't magically solve the problem. I think the relaxed gun laws have created a culture here and that culture won't just go away if you make the laws stricter IMO.


Not saying relaxed gun laws help/don't hurt at all(well I am kinda saying that lol), but Australia doesn't have that culture around guns like we do.
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Post by Cnasty »

Mental health
Guns
Social media
Technology
Culture
Upbringing
Social determinants
Politics
Money

If someone can take all of those things, and more I am probably missing, and fix this it would be a miracle.

Our society, culture and history is different then any other country in the world. You can’t just “fix” that.

Does it make it right or wrong, not at all but it’s so complex.
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Post by Whittness10 »

So let's just say they decide to ban all guns and the government then starts to track down all of said guns. What do you think the chances are that every citizen willingly gives up every gun that is owned? That % will be very low. My wife has an AR in the house that no government official will ever know is even there.
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Post by nick »

You show them pictures of dead kids in schools because of the gun they use. When they decline, you mark down that that family has mental health issues and make note in a database. Least then when shit happens you'll have less time to waste finding the people that statistically, probably did it.
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Post by GeorgesGoons »

Guns aren't going anywhere here in America. We need to work on actual ways to help the problem. Background checks could be better, which is pretty evident after the Buffalo massacre. We need to hold accountable the people doing the background checks, if it comes out that there were serious red flags that were overlooked (thru neglect or not) these people should be charged with a crime (probably a misdemeanor). I think a "cooling" off period after the background check goes thru could help as well. A much longer cooling off period that one would think, maybe a year. Maybe force the person who wants to buy a gun to have a mental health evaluation on their own dime before legally purchasing a weapon.

Do you have to get a background check to buy a rifle? I don't think you do, maybe add that into having to get a background check. The "assault" rifle ban doesn't work and it's weak at best in how it was written in the 90's. I like to use the Mini 14 or Mini 30 by Ruger. You can buy one in all wood with nothing added to it and it's considered just a rifle. But if you add a pistol grip and a collapsible stock it is now an "assault" rifle. It has the same rate of fire, same muzzle velocity, fires the same round, etc.... So throwing laws out there "banning" guns because of the way they look is putting a band aid on a sucking chest wound. People are the ultimate problem, not guns, and we need to figure out how we can keep guns out of peoples hands that don't need them.
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Post by nick »

the bare min here is background check, registration, and a 1 or 2 day course on gun safety.
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Post by nick »

btw if you cant ban guns, you cant be banning abortions.
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shel311
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Post by shel311 »

nick wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 1:02 pm the bare min here is background check, registration, and a 1 or 2 day course on gun safety.
I agree here. I still don't know that it's stopping all these random mass shootings, but you gotta start somewhere.

Everyone owning a gun should have that gun registered, have a background check, and have to pass a gun safety program before getting their gun.

And I think the penalty for having an unregistered gun should be extremely harsh.




All for that, but again, I still think we'll see way more mass shootings than other countries even if enacted.
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Post by DRiccio21 »

been a while since i went on one of my rants but here goes:

there is no 'answer'

our hot take/debate society always wants THE ANSWER and to FIX things. these things are a product of multiple factors and there are no simple answers/ solutions.

all the things we're discussing are absolutely factors. corey listed a bunch of them. gun control is obviously an enormous issue... they are all parts of the problem. even when you say something like 'mental health' that is essentially incorporating EVERY aspect of living as that's what leads to ones 'mental health'.

one factor corey didn't mention that won't be popular but i've thought of a lot over the past decade (mostly when i think about my own existence) is that the removal of religion from our society has a major impact on how we live.

1) we don't have a 'fear' of a god or heaven/hell. in the past people lived with certain fear that their actions would impact their after life.

2) we live for ourselves and are very ego driven rather than living for a god or religion or community. in a world when you only live for yourself and you start to get depressed about your existence you lose everything and can crumble into doing terrible things and/or become suicidal. when you live for a god or for others you can always have a purpose.

3) religion gave many people a sense of belonging to a community, now many people's only 'community' is a phone and social media.

again i know religion isn't popular and i don't practice any religion but i'm a big believer that the absence of religion creates a lot of voids which can potentially lead to chaos. with that said, fighting over religions causes a whole other level of pain so religion has its obvious downsides too.

last thing i'll say... the world isn't bad. bad things happen but the world is full of good. every generation has recency biases where they believe their issues are THE biggest, most unfathomable issues that have ever occurred. our parents felt that way about something, their parents felt that way about something... we aren't the first people who have said 'this world is going to shit' its VERY easy to focus on negativity and fear. we almost strive for it (hence why the nightly news is full of horrible shit) as it helps us rationalize/downplay our own issues.

if you want to 'FIX' this type of stuff from happening, go out and be kind to others. smile, stop bitching, stop fighting with others on the internet, believe in good, live a good existence when nobody is watching that you can be proud of. those behaviors will have an impact on those who look at you (kids, wife, friends, co workers) and that is what slowly changes your environments. we all either give energy to the world or suck it from the world, think about how your actions/words/thoughts impact others... all of that matters.
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Post by nick »

Religion is communism without the name.

also there was a 500 year dark age because of religion. It's probably the worst thing to happen to society ever.
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Post by DRiccio21 »

that response pretty much sums it all up
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Post by GeorgesGoons »

DRiccio21 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 1:32 pm that response pretty much sums it all up
:lol: :lol:

but predictable
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Post by GeorgesGoons »

DRiccio21 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 1:26 pm

if you want to 'FIX' this type of stuff from happening, go out and be kind to others. smile, stop bitching, stop fighting with others on the internet, believe in good, live a good existence when nobody is watching that you can be proud of. those behaviors will have an impact on those who look at you (kids, wife, friends, co workers) and that is what slowly changes your environments. we all either give energy to the world or suck it from the world, think about how your actions/words/thoughts impact others... all of that matters.
100% agree

one of the common factors in these shootings is these kids were shunned by their peers, they were made fun of by their peers, they were beat up by their peers.....
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Post by GeorgesGoons »

They are saying he posted on facebook that he was going to go shoot elementary kids about 15 minutes prior to getting to the school. Facebook can put me on a 60 day ban for posting a meme that said, "every girl is a squirter if you cut the right artery" with a picture of Ted Bundy but they can't find these posts that literally said he was going to shoot elementary kids?!?
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Post by ReignOnU »

DRiccio21 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 1:26 pm our hot take/debate society always wants THE ANSWER and to FIX things. these things are a product of multiple factors and there are no simple answers/ solutions.
The hot take/debate society is driven by technology/social media. Everyone has 15min of fame at their fingertips.
all the things we're discussing are absolutely factors. corey listed a bunch of them. gun control is obviously an enormous issue... they are all parts of the problem. even when you say something like 'mental health' that is essentially incorporating EVERY aspect of living as that's what leads to ones 'mental health'.
At the root of most of the things listed is social media and ease of communication.
one factor corey didn't mention that won't be popular but i've thought of a lot over the past decade (mostly when i think about my own existence) is that the removal of religion from our society has a major impact on how we live.

1) we don't have a 'fear' of a god or heaven/hell. in the past people lived with certain fear that their actions would impact their after life.
I didn't grow up in church, I don't currently go to church, but I often think back to my time at Indiana Wesleyan. I didn't learn much of anything in terms of business for my degree, but I took away so much from the theology coursework. Not only was it eye opening to see how many people lived in conflict with their true worldview, it was just as eye opening for me to get a better definition of mine. I'm sure it's not the case for most people in these courses, but going through the program with a few other fathers and mothers, while having a professor that was quite open-minded about our various upbringings, gave us all a huge perspective.
2) we live for ourselves and are very ego driven rather than living for a god or religion or community. in a world when you only live for yourself and you start to get depressed about your existence you lose everything and can crumble into doing terrible things and/or become suicidal. when you live for a god or for others you can always have a purpose.

3) religion gave many people a sense of belonging to a community, now many people's only 'community' is a phone and social media.
The need to inflate the ego is in-line with the need to impress the "community" of Instagram, Facebook Tik Tok, etc. I'm highly involved in my local community (coaching, schools, local businesses) and the signs are everywhere. I see 40yo bikers posting pics at he local bar with their buds, but never posting a pic kicking a ball with their kids. Mom's with 100 duck face photos, but nothing with their family. I watch parents show up to practice, direct their kid to the field and then bury their face in their phones. Families at the restaurant order their meals and parents and kids dive right into their devices. Kids go to the park to sit on the bench and scroll their phones, side by side... without talking.
again i know religion isn't popular and i don't practice any religion but i'm a big believer that the absence of religion creates a lot of voids which can potentially lead to chaos. with that said, fighting over religions causes a whole other level of pain so religion has its obvious downsides too.
Religion isn't a pre-requisite for faith and morality. It's ok to believe in something, even if you can't define it.
last thing i'll say... the world isn't bad. bad things happen but the world is full of good.
If people take nothing else from what you said, it's this. It's really true. My only concern is that if we continue to take it for granted and highlight the bad in the world, we're destined for bad things.
every generation has recency biases where they believe their issues are THE biggest, most unfathomable issues that have ever occurred. our parents felt that way about something, their parents felt that way about something... we aren't the first people who have said 'this world is going to shit' its VERY easy to focus on negativity and fear. we almost strive for it (hence why the nightly news is full of horrible shit) as it helps us rationalize/downplay our own issues.
This is the 1 place I think we differ here. There is no comparable monster of technology/social media. So many of the prior generations' issues are consolidated and magnified today.
if you want to 'FIX' this type of stuff from happening, go out and be kind to others. smile, stop bitching, stop fighting with others on the internet, believe in good, live a good existence when nobody is watching that you can be proud of. those behaviors will have an impact on those who look at you (kids, wife, friends, co workers) and that is what slowly changes your environments. we all either give energy to the world or suck it from the world, think about how your actions/words/thoughts impact others... all of that matters.
Slowly changes environments and greatly changes lives.

Appreciate your post Dave. Well said.
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GeorgesGoons wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 1:45 pm

one of the common factors in these shootings is these kids were shunned by their peers, they were made fun of by their peers, they were beat up by their peers.....
this is a chicken and egg situation.....are the shunned because they are creeps or vice versa?
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ajalves wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 6:26 pm
GeorgesGoons wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 1:45 pm

one of the common factors in these shootings is these kids were shunned by their peers, they were made fun of by their peers, they were beat up by their peers.....
this is a chicken and egg situation.....are the shunned because they are creeps or vice versa?
True
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Post by LetsGoPeay »

GeorgesGoons wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:48 am not deflecting at all. But, our schools need to take a lead role in this as well. My son's school in Colorado had only one way in when school was in session. You had to ring the bell and they had to buzz you in. They could see you as well with their cameras. This is one way we can help protect our kids. This didn't protect the kids at Sandy Hook though as they had that system in place, the shooter's mom worked at that school and that is why he was able to gain access.
This is standard now. Every morning after the bell rings my SRO checks every door and I double check them. At lunch I check every door again. We have monitors in my office, my assistant principal’s office, the SRO’s office, and at our secretary’s desk. There is always somebody watching the cameras. We are installing a new, even more secure entrance this summer and upgrading our doors as well. We do a site safety survey every fall and an active shooter drill every summer. Any school that does not do this has opened themselves up to a massive liability issue.
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Post by LetsGoPeay »

ajalves wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 6:26 pm
GeorgesGoons wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 1:45 pm

one of the common factors in these shootings is these kids were shunned by their peers, they were made fun of by their peers, they were beat up by their peers.....
this is a chicken and egg situation.....are the shunned because they are creeps or vice versa?
The Columbine kids weren’t social outcasts. They had a solid group of friends, went to the prom, and were actually more the bullies than the bullies. Eric Harris was a complete narcissistic sociopath and Dylan Klebold was a follower his whole life.
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LetsGoPeay wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:29 pm
GeorgesGoons wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:48 am not deflecting at all. But, our schools need to take a lead role in this as well. My son's school in Colorado had only one way in when school was in session. You had to ring the bell and they had to buzz you in. They could see you as well with their cameras. This is one way we can help protect our kids. This didn't protect the kids at Sandy Hook though as they had that system in place, the shooter's mom worked at that school and that is why he was able to gain access.
This is standard now. Every morning after the bell rings my SRO checks every door and I double check them. At lunch I check every door again. We have monitors in my office, my assistant principal’s office, the SRO’s office, and at our secretary’s desk. There is always somebody watching the cameras. We are installing a new, even more secure entrance this summer and upgrading our doors as well. We do a site safety survey every fall and an active shooter drill every summer. Any school that does not do this has opened themselves up to a massive liability issue.
I'm sure there is excess COVID money that hasn't been spent by the school districts. This should be the first priority in every school. Here in Omaha, some schools have the secure entryways but others don't. I believe in Colorado Springs every school had that secure entryway.
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